Historic move as Irish government drafts abortion legislation for 2013 vote

Bocky, when a Constitution gives full protection to both pregnant woman and child, one must question the validity or morality of the Supreme Court coming down on the side of legislation which invariably will open up the way to abortion on demand(despite the initial "limited" circumstances it will purportedly cover). You may call it a "personal" opinion, but many people would hold that same thought. @Eiriamach, You list medical scenarios where abortion in your opinion would be a mercy to the child and provide relief to the mother. You talk about "profoundly handicapped" children getting a so-called release from their suffering by the destruction of their lives. Would Down Syndrome children be included in this list of "mercy" killings? This is nothing short of eugenics(unless the child in the womb has a fatal medical condition which is beyond medical assistance but still should not be ruthlessly destroyed). Somehow I don't think eliminating defenseless and voiceless fetuses or embryos(no matter what their handicap) amounts to "killing in self-defense". Other medical conditions that you mention to justify abortion, are rare and the vast majority of cases are for "social" reasons, as any trawl of the casebook files of women who opt for this horrific option(as in GB) will tell you. The push for abortion is overtly ideological and goes beyond any medical necessity and all right thinking people must resist any attempt to attempts by parliamentarians to legislate in favor of it.

Apologies - either the site or my computer is chopping my first sentence, sorry.

now what caused Happanalavar's death, whether it was abortion related or not? I have never seen so much rush about any legislation in Ireland, nor have I ever seen any Irish government more amenable to take orders from Indian and other politicians , Ireland has never taken any notice of the European Court which has no power at all in this matter in Ireland, and I am therefore most suspicious of the Irish Taoiseach and Minister for health quoting European Court decision now in this case when indeed it has no power at all.

ral matters is the best, I think the Archbishops are right in this and that all churches have a right to have a say where Abortion is concerned. I fel that suicide is rare amongst pregnant women, that suicide is much more prevalent amongst women who have had an abortion. The European Court does not come into this no more than does the House of Lords come into the governance of the USA. Yes there should be legislation but what legislation the Constitution allows is debatable. The Supreme Court in Ireland can't overrule what the people have voted for in referendum ensrined in the Constitution. Thus far there aree a lot of politician's lies about courts' powers in this matter, both the European and the Irish Supreme Courtof twenty years ago( note , not the present Irish Supreme Court)

Irish"girl," One of the 10 commandments, a reasonable stand-in for natural law/moral law, instructs us not to kill. The moral principle involved is that it is wrong to cause unnecessary suffering. Some people consider killing in war to be necessary. I consider killing in self-defense or defense of others justifiable. So the commandment is not an absolute moral statement; it requires that we THINK and apply it in relevant situations. It is wrong, morally wrong with no doubt, to bring to birth an infant whose only "human" experience is to suffer and die, as many profoundly handicapped infants do, of starvation, screaming in blind pain. We have the means to detect in utero in first trimester fetuses destined for such suffering, and it is right to prevent the suffering by abortion. An absolutist on any moral issue will refuse to see the harm prevented or the good accomplished. Your feelings of horror are poor guides to morality. I suggest that you take an ethics course, do some thinking, visit a dying infant in a neonatal unit, and never take your moral cues from You Tube! Perhaps you should talk with men and women who have brought such pregnancies to term. I know one who became a severe alcoholic and another who went clinical-crazy after they saw the suffering they had caused to an innocent babe, nursery health staff, and their families.

What should we replace the Supreme Court with? Our own personal opinion?

Agreed, the Supreme Court holds that right. But one must ask in the light of the A,B and C rulings by the ECHR(which in effect put no legal pressure on Ireland into enacting pro-abortion legislation), why the Supreme Court would facilitate by it's judgement any law which would undermine the guarantees built into an Article as fundamental to life as 40.3.3

The supreme court is the final arbiter of what the constitution means. Is that not correct?

No, I am not setting myself up as an expert. But the article that I have laid out to you in black and white, guarantees the life of the mother and unborn child. The Supreme Court obviously is empowered to interpret the various articles and clauses in the Constitution, but if their decision goes against said article(s), then one would have to question the context in which they are making such judgments. One can only wonder if certain recent rulings in the European Court of Human Rights would have anything to do with it.

Are you better qualified than the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution?

If you know the Constitution, Bocky, Article 40.3.3 stipulates clearly that there exists a need to protect both the life of the mother and unborn child. Abortion is a disastrous remedy as it is nothing but the intentional destruction of the nascent life in the womb and in the majority of cases in western nations the reason is purely "social". The "right to chose" has become a repetitive mantra which trumps the life of the developing embryo or fetus. The push for abortion is mostly for ideological reasons and there is absolutely no medical or moral necessity for this evil to be introduced.

This legislation is not optional. It's required by the constitution.

There are a lot of abortifactant substances that could be brought in by a visitor. Who would know? It would be recorded as a miscarriage. Obedience to the law only goes so far.

@TomSwinford | Dec 19, 2012, 10:29 AM EST, for once i agree with you, great comment.

pilib04- The man under the bed