36 Comments

• Towngate | Aug 03, 2012, 10:29 AM EDT

  The government should not bother with those who will not pay this charge which is a condition of being lent the Bailout funds which are keeping the place afloat. If the non-payers don't 'get it', then the Government should stop all and any payments to the household from public funds! (The Household charge is LESS than Child benefit for ONE child for ONE WEEK!)

• billie061 | May 04, 2012, 08:21 PM EDT

  I haven't paid and won't reason the fat cats and our useless goverments brought the country to its knees. How many of the fat cats have been made pay ? Sean Quinn stood in court this week with his crocidile tears, but when my house burnt down 3 years ago his co who I had my ins with put me tru hell.

• allan07 | Apr 08, 2012, 04:47 AM EDT

  @sirpeter lets put your bigotary name calling aside and look at the figures. The Republic of Ireland has had to borrow 86 billion recently to keep it afloat. Britian, Denmark and Sweden have also had bilateral loans. The population of the ROI is 3.5 million. Thats men, women and children. 86 bilion Euros = 86,000,000,000 divided by 3,500,000 = 24,571 Euros borrowed for every man, womwn and child in the country. Its frightening but it will not last. So a family with 2 adults and 2 children have in effect borrowed 100,000 Euros. This cannot go on. @joan1954 well what happened the ROI has had £150 billion in grants from when it joined the EU. This money was used to artifically reduce taxation income from the people and companies. Some international companies such as Dell Computers were encouraged to move to the ROI because of the lower taxes. Others followed. So when the property market went down 40-60% the banks could not recover their loans. These loans were out like sweets to children at a party a few ago. A house in Dublin recently was out on the market for 700,000 Euros when 2 years ago it cost 4.75 million Euros. The banks had to refinanced and with a artifically low tax regime a huge hole in their finances existed. How could their government bail out their banks when they did not have any money. By borrowing from the EU/IMF, US, Britain, Sweden, Denmark, Luxenmbourg, by robbing the pension funds of its own citizens, etc. Soundrels and thiefs. I wouldnt trust that lot with my childrens pocket money. Now the nationalists like sirpeter live in a world of denial. A bit like the Third Reich after World War 2 they denied the holocaust to the jews race.

• allan07 | Apr 07, 2012, 12:49 PM EDT

  @sirpeter was the other 6 countries in the OCED survey, Albania, Democratic Republic of Congo, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Sierra Leone and Eritrea by any chance? Ireland has had recent loans from Sweden, Luxembourg and £6 billion from Britian. Then theres 86 billion Euros from EU/IMF. Your skint and just to deep of a nationalist to accept that the Republic of Ireland are living of the means of everyone else. All the Republics banks are now state owned. ALL thats 100%. When the Greeks default on their repayments the free staters will be unable to borrow more. Interest rates for new loans will be 7% plus. The Celtic tiger has passed away. Get real. Why should our VAT in Northern Ireland be increased from 17.5% to 20% to bail out you free staters? The gravy train has hit the buffers for the free state. Time to call the baliffs i fear.

• sirpeter | Apr 06, 2012, 10:17 PM EDT

  allan07.Did you get a bang on the head from rioting or what?Quote"They always believe in state intervention for everything"Unquote.Reality check.In total,the British government subvention totals £5,000m,or 20% of Northern Ireland's economic output.Ye are the pride of the UK LOL.In the industry statistics just provided by the Central Bank it reports that as of end of November 2011, the NAV of Irish domiciled investment funds was €1,008 Billion. The Industry enters 2012 as a trillion Euro Industry, a remarkable achievement..Broke my a*ss.Ireland still ranks second in terms of wealth per capita in a survey of eight leading OECD countries.Bank of Ireland Private Banking Limited expect net assets to increase to €1,166 billion by 2015.Another Billy Boy with a wild imagination.

• allan07 | Apr 06, 2012, 05:46 PM EDT

  @joan1954 a great passage and well constructed. My bet is Ireland will do nothing, carry on as usual and when a financial meltdown happens do know what they will do? Blame everyone else. The USA, Britain, Luxembourg, European Union states, everyone and anyone except themselves. Why after 90 years of independence have they not got an economy to provide for their own needs. The truthful answer is because their governments are useless. What good does the president of Ireland do? What purpose does he serve? If he gets 2 dollars per annum it 2 dollars 2 much.

• allan07 | Apr 06, 2012, 05:35 PM EDT

  @joan1954 you realize like me that Ireland has been living on the proceeds of others for years. European grants will come to an sticky end when poorer countries join the European Union. Ireland has failed its people for generations. 90 years of independence and still the Irish blame Britain for its own failed governments. They should stop looking for a scapegoat and get real. The whole of the Republics political parties are left wing. FF/FG/Greens/SF/Labour. They always believe in state intervention for everything. So whoever they put in government its the same old same old failed policies. Thank god we in Northern Ireland have nothing to do with them. When the Greeks default on their repayments this year or early next, the Republic of Ireland will be tested on the financial markets. Lets see what interest rate they will be made to borrow at just to stay afloat. 7%, 8%. In other words its going to be a financial meltdown. Watch this space its going to be disaster. As sure as eggs are eggs.

• aoibhinn | Apr 06, 2012, 01:15 PM EDT

  jacersagain, ah if only they'd asked us for ideas! I'll bet I could walk into any government office and, in a day or two, be able to cut several thousands from that office's budget without it being missed. The argument against paying the Household Charge is not whether people can afford it, or whether we SHOULD pay it, we are at the top of a slippery slope. They may be starting with a small amount, but will see it as a way to top up their piggy banks in every increasing amounts. It has been like a third rail because it reminded people of having to pay English landlords to live on their own land! I do not have a TV because I refuse to fund the egotistical, incestous, overpaid personalities of RTE by paying a TV license. But this is people's homes, that unlike in the U.S. are passed on from generation to generation, so people will be quite stuck and will have no choice if we start this. The banks should have been let go down the drain and their management put in jail, not given their big bonuses which are supposed to be based on performance. If only all Irish businesses could be bailed out if they failed! Wouldn't that be great! People are hurting and angry that those at the top don't seem to be affected, don't seem to realize it, or don't care.

• joan1954 | Apr 06, 2012, 10:58 AM EDT

  This whole issue amazes me. Here in the US we pay property taxes, water and refuse taxes, school district taxes to our local government to take care of our needs so as not to be so dependent on state coffers. I have always wondered why there in no local taxation structure in place for cities and counties in Ireland that would not be subject to Dublin's whims. Not knowing the full story as to the rejection of the 131 euro, I question the motive but there will come a time in the not too distant future that Ireland will lose out on the euro entitlements it has been receiving for years in favor of the newly emerging countries of Eastern Europe. It does need to be proactive people before there is another meltdown. And it will come!!!! If the people of Ireland don't want to deal with it then return to the punt and withdraw from the eurozone as Ireland's heady days which gave birth to the Celtic Tiger are gone.

• allan07 | Apr 06, 2012, 05:16 AM EDT

  @Irelandnorth correction "95% of the protestant population today have NEVER grown a potato or even a bean". It was obvious to everyone the economic meltdown would happen when property in Dublin became the most expensive in Europe. Why? It has no industry, its not a banking centre, its heavily dependant on Euro grants. etc. For every Euro it puts into the EU it gets back 7. This will change in any event as poor countries like Estonia, Romania and Albania join the EU. European grants will be diverted there. Ireland will suffer as a result. The Euro experiment will probably fail big time before the end of next year when Greece defaults on their loan repayments. The Republic of Ireland will follow.

• allan07 | Apr 06, 2012, 05:02 AM EDT

  @Irelandnorth let's get the events of history correct. The planters as you describe the protestant people is insulting. You make reference to the Plantations of Ulster in 1600 and shortly afterwards. Not all the protestant people whom emigrated from Scotland/North England were farmers or planters at that time. Going back over 400 years ago is silly. At that time life was very primitive. Before electricity, tractors, computers, flight, machinery, etc. Most of the population lived of the land. Everywhere. The numbers who moved to Ireland at that time were small. They became land tenants having to pay rent to the landowner and tithes to the church. Obviously it was no great comfortable lifestyle. In most cases a man and woman would get a few cowes, pigs and farm animals. Self sufficient to a degree by slaughting their own animals, curing their own meat, etc. Nothing was for nothing. Rent was paid to the landowner/their own church. Women worked in the fields just like men. Flax was a popular crop and this involved working this to produce clothes. The woman were seamstress's, knitting the wool to provide clothes for the family. Clothes were repaired by darning and patching. Hardly a great quality of life. Obviously the number of protestants grew with each passing generation. Your view that the protestant population just invaded one day is false. After the 1707 Act of Union between Scotland and England more protestants moved to Ireland. Land was cheaper, some didnt accept the union between Scotland/England, etc. This is history but dont describe the protestant people as planters. 95% of the protestant people today have grown a potato or even a bean. In any event bringing Northern Ireland into the failed economics of the Republic is not going to solve their problems. The Republic of Ireland has failed economically and if you were honest you would say so. But I guess you will just put your head in the sand and say otherwise.

• allan07 | Apr 06, 2012, 04:35 AM EDT

  @Bythnebay what I object to is the people here in Northern Ireland paying taxes to bail out the free state. The Republic of Ireland has been an absolute failure. 90 years of independence and still they cannot support themselves. It banks are bust, its offical Church are up to the eyes in sexual scandal and having to pay compensation to the victims, the state police the garda are currently involved in a tribunal "the smithwick investigation" into collusion with the IRA and the passing on of documents about citizens here in Northern Ireland, the former PM Berite Ahern has been found guilty of taking bribes when in office, the countries finances are all over the place, every school leaver is leaving the country for Australia, US or Britain (the great enemy), government employees have had to accept 40% pay cuts, etc, etc. Need I go on. The Celtic tiger has been slained but some Republicians just dont get it. These people are fools. What is the ROI government ask to youth unemployment lets get some US politicians to force through Visa E2 rights in the US to allow more Irish to go there. They haven't got a clue. It impossible for these republicians to move from bombs to budgets or from timers to taxes. They just dont understand. A group of left wing parties. SF/FF/FG/Labour/Greens. Blind people all shoutig this way everyone. As one Dubliner said to me recently "Follow me sir i am right behind you". It makes you laugh.

• KevinKehoe | Apr 05, 2012, 05:27 PM EDT

  piece of the action.When Lehmann’s went bust and the sh--hit-the-fan Anglo soon followed, Anglo’s financial records are a mess and totally corrupt. The big difference is the corrupt Irish government agreed to guarantee the crooked private depths of Anglo and other banks. As far as I’m aware this is the only time in History that a sovereign government place a blanket guarantee on banks private depth and laid that burden on its sovereign people and mainly to try and protect the Mafia who were bribing them, refer to note on Capitalism above.

• KevinKehoe | Apr 05, 2012, 05:25 PM EDT

  Part 2b.Taking just one bank in Ireland, ‘Anglo Irish’, a private bank just like ‘Lehmann Brother’s’. As the Irish people now know to there sorrow, it was run by a bunch of crooks backed up by even more crooked politicians with a golden circle of 20 to 30 high-flyers in Irelands establishment society. These greedy b------s wanted to own Ireland and a slice of the rest of the world. They borrowed upwards of 35 billion through Anglo Irish Bank for high risk investments and you will never guess who lent Anglo the billion’s in this high risk business, well only the Banks in the USA , UK & Europe who all wanted a piece of the action.

• ciaradexy | Apr 05, 2012, 04:51 PM EDT

  Bythebay, youre not Irish. I know this because you refer to the Irish as 'the Irish' or 'you lot' so thats pretty self explanatory. We pay stamp duty, thats a property tax. I am not paying anymore money to funded failed gamblers. I lost money in Vegas. I didnt get to go back to the cashiers desk for a refund and I certainly didnt expect the cashier to take money from the rest of the people in the hotel to fund my loss. We pay enough.

• jacersagain | Apr 05, 2012, 04:49 PM EDT

  While I’m at it, I’ll rant more on the very concept of a Household Charge and the proposed Irish Property Tax supposed to be levied next year or so. Most European countries, including the UK through its Borough or Council Taxes, already charge home owners a kind of Property Tax. The EU is insisting that Ireland introduce Property Taxes to follow the European practice. Well, I think such a charge is reprehensible for ANY country’s Govt to levy on home owners and should be fought against all over Europe, not just in Ireland. The idea that any Govt can arbitrarily decide to tax a person just for having his or her own home - after years of working hard to pay for the privilege to live in it and maintain it, just because the home is there (no other reason) - is hugely repulsive. Now I know that roads need upkeep but that’s already paid for by motor tax. Water is plentiful and free in Ireland but the maintenance of the supply system to homes and workplaces needs to be paid for – that’s coming with the installation of water meters at every house, so everybody will pay according to usage – that’s fair, like electricity charges. Sewage disposal and its treatment are expensive to maintain but I think a charge per WC/wash basin in each house should take care of that (like a TV licence). Public libraries are free but the books are bought and the libraries maintained from LAs’ funding by central Govt. I hardly ever use a library and I don’t like my taxes being used for free public use by those who do use libraries... so introduce a membership fee for library users. Public parks should have a small entrance fee to cover flower planting and children’s playgrounds… and so on and on. A Property Tax is a loathsome concept and should be trashed into oblivion by all threatened by it by our Government.

• allan07 | Apr 05, 2012, 04:37 PM EDT

  @Bythnebay I think you mean Britain gave Ireland money in the form of loans. In fact Britain loaned £6 billion in special loans voted on by the Westminister parliament. "You said England i think you mean Britain". The Scottish, Welsh and the people here in Northern Ireland would be upset by being forgotten. I believe that Greece will default anyway and Ireland will follow. Financial meltdown will occur and we British will not see our loans being repaid. The people in Northern Ireland will not be happy with the stupid Euro. It can only but fail. It not if, its just a matter of when. MY guess is early next year.

• allan07 | Apr 05, 2012, 04:26 PM EDT

  @IrelandNorth I find it so annnoying that you refer to the people of Northern Ireland as planters. Over 400 years have passed. Why you tilt history and argument into a nationalist agenda? The 1998 NI Peace Agreement voted on by both NI and ROI accepted that the ROI has no right to NI. United Nations also endorsed that to be the case. We in Northern Ireland pay too much tax but this property tax in the ROI has nothing to do with us.

• jacersagain | Apr 05, 2012, 04:01 PM EDT

  I think a lot of Irish people don’t really know what the Household Charge is. The Irish Govt will have you believe that it is to finance Local Authorities (LAs) delivering services to all homes… water supply, sewage disposal, household rubbish collections (yes, I know some have been privatised), road networks, upkeep of public parks, beaches and libraries etc. What the Govt hasn’t told anybody clearly and what is already known, is that the €160m that is required for all LAs to deliver their services was withheld from them at the start of this year and has already been used towards paying off the EU loan of €86bn and the LAs have little Govt funding at the moment. The Govt estimates that there 1.6 million privately-owned homes in Ireland (disputable, the Govt doesn’t really know) and on this estimate is asking every private household to pay €100 each to fill the hole left by the payment of LAs' €160m to the EU. Effectively, the Govt stole the €160m from the LAs funding and now wants householders to replace what they (the Govt) stole from LAs. So those who say we should cough up and pay the Charge should first tackle the Govt for its dishonesty and misleading arguments for why we should pay it. As KevinKehoe tells us about his €69,200 in the taxes he’s already paid, there has already been millions of tax money collected from house buyers through Stamp Duty and home builders’ contributions to LAs. This House Charge stinks and sinks to the lowest sneaky way of forcing home owners to pay a second time for things that have already been paid for but which payments have been given to the EU Banking overlords instead of the purpose for which such charges like KevinKehoe paid were intended.

• ciaradexy | Apr 05, 2012, 03:05 PM EDT

  Bythebay, the Irish arent asking you yanks for anything. As for the €2000 a year on going out, so whay. Is it any business of yours what people spend their disposable income on? A night out costs on average €100 here. My Nashville mates had no issues spending €200 per night on booze when they were here. Its none of my business just like this is none of yours.

• Curitiba | Apr 05, 2012, 06:26 AM EDT

  I'm not sure about NI but in the rest of the UK property taxes (borough council tax)is a minimum of £1200 a year. You can set a single person discount of 25%. Some people pay at least twice that, depending on where you live and how valuable your house is. So I would say Irish homeowners have got away pretty lightly until now.

• KevinKehoe | Apr 05, 2012, 06:22 AM EDT

  Part 2 to BytheBay Regarding the Billions of free money you keep on about, nobody got or gets free money wake up please, the bail-out package Ireland got is a loan with high interest.‘not free money from the the good old USA or Europe or anywhere else’ It would take page after page to try to explain to someone with so little knowledge of whats going on in Ireland or the world. Hears just one example and please take note, in capitalism the investor takes risks in his or her investments, the lower the risk = lower profit, higher risk = higher profit or none at all.

• IrelandNorth | Apr 05, 2012, 06:18 AM EDT

  Bythebay/CoisAnCuan! Get your facts right before engaging in Ulster-Scot black propaganda. Ireland is an island nation of circa 6 million people, currently comprised of two artificial statelets. Ireland's population as a whole is c. 5 m. native Irish - i.e. Catholic/Nationalist/Republican. And 1 m. Ulster-Scot Planter stock of Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist. People without property shouldn't have to pay property tax. It's called General Household Services Change. It's unfair because it's €100 regardless of income. That's 1% for someone on €10,000 p/a. It's only 0.05% for Taoiseach Kenny on €200,000 p/a. Jewish-Irish Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence (sic) Mr. Alan Shatter spent fifteen years on the opposition benches in Dail Eireann building a substantial personal property portfolio both in Ireland and the US funded by 100% mortgage-pushing Irish banks. His former home in Terenure was burgled recently, with Rolex watches taken. He should get a reality check. One percent charges for the poor. 99% for the rich. True republicanism is about equality too, ya know! Sinn Fein are in government in Ulster/NI with Unionists, and are likely to be the next majority led government in the twenty-six counties.

• sirpeter | Apr 04, 2012, 10:14 PM EDT

  Bythebay is full of crap.If he is by the bay.One can only hope he jumps in.

• KevinKehoe | Apr 04, 2012, 06:46 PM EDT

  Its takes a lot to attempts to post a comment

• KevinKehoe | Apr 04, 2012, 06:14 PM EDT

  Part 3. Not one person from this criminal gang has been brought to justice, the politicians all jumped ship or voted out on government are living on vast pensions, some of the banksters and golden circle sought sanctuary from the law in another country namely the US. Not forgetting of course when the masters of the US Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner told him to get to Ireland & Europe and wave the big stick and make sure that someone paid there unsecured depth, namely the innocent Irish families. That is not capitalism or democracy it Fascism, and now we, just like the you in the US are run by Wall Street and the City of London. At least we are starting to fight back, starting with not paying the extra Taxes' on our homes, let those greedy feckers pay there own depths, who knows whats next ?.

• KevinKehoe | Apr 04, 2012, 06:09 PM EDT

  Just testing

• KevinKehoe | Apr 04, 2012, 05:31 PM EDT

  Part 1 to BytheBay. With reference to Bythebay’s comments on this article and other articles about Ireland on this site. He seems to have no knowledge of global financial markets or banks which are in the main controlled by the City of London and Wall St. with there tentacles reaching into Germany, France and the rest of Europe and the world, and no idea what truly went on in Ireland. I take it you read daily rag newspapers and watch Fox news or the likes. A good starting place would be David Mc Williams excellent site, but you would have a lot of reading to catch-up on. The vast majority 95% of the people on this island got no free money deals including myself. We worked hard and paid higher than anywhere in the western world for our fuel, transport and homes all loaded with extra tax etc. etc. This new government of “Liars” were elected on a different mandate than they promised so even though they lied there way into government we have to wait till the next election to vote them out, its called democracy. I will say however I did not vote for them as there track record is bad to say the least just like the crooks before them. However we [50%] can hit back at the financial traitors in our country by not paying the first payment 100Euro extra tax on our homes soon to increase to Thousands in 3 years. Another reason I wont pay for the extravagance of the 5% is we pay our tax up front, I already paid 69,000Euro in Tax’s and fees on my home I built in 2007, 13,500 contribution tax, 3700 water connection, 10,000 drain connection all to Dublin City Council and 42.000 in vat tax to the state,totaling 69.200, and they want more, to hell with them. To add salt to the wound I get demands for ground rent from an Irish group of solicitors representing an English landlord with title going back to the 1800’s, they can rot in hell too.

• DanOLoingsigh | Apr 04, 2012, 05:16 PM EDT

  Many Europeans see taxes as a price worth paying to maintain a civilised society...this is one of the great divides between the European and US ethos...it costs money to have decent health, education, welfare and civic amenities...yes, some will abuse any system, and should be brought to account...but being honest, hard-working and tax compliant are not mutually exclusive aspirations...

• GeorgeDillon | Apr 04, 2012, 03:27 PM EDT

  Bythebay, I disagree with what you say, but you're on the money as regards private spending. I still see people in Ireland sucking on cigarettes. I figure if they smoke a pack a day, and smokes cost more than $10 a pack, they could save $3650--let's say four grand--a year by quitting. And that's 4k of after tax dollars, so to make that money they'd have to earn at least 5k, or get it on welfare. In other words--someone wants a pay raise of five thousand bucks a year? Just throw away those damn cigarettes!

• aloistmartin | Apr 04, 2012, 02:51 PM EDT

  Bravo Silling ! Government should work from the Bottom Up; And not the other way round. A Socialist Government should earn It keep from Services Rendered. What is so Important about Private Ownership anyway ? What we all share as Prisoners of N. Ireland, as Catholics, as Irishmen; Wee should not make a matter of Avarice,or personal Ambition. But if there is to be Good Fortune, let it be the Intellect, Beauty, and Glory of the Saints. Im not for sharing Toilet Paper. But to the Tower with Dublin`s Tax !

• Silling | Apr 04, 2012, 01:10 PM EDT

  I'm Irish, but living in France, but if I was in Ireland, there is no way I would pay that charge or indeed any charge to a Blue Shirt Capitalist party in a coalition with a so called Socialist party who have abandoned their philosophies just to stay in power. Labour should pull out of this coalition and collapse the government. A new election with Labour and Sinn Fein in coalition is what Ireland needs right now.

• ciaradexy | Apr 04, 2012, 12:37 PM EDT

  Hey George Dick, I didnt pay anything. They are getting f*ckall off me. I pay enough in taxes and levies. Bythebay, you keep changing from Irish to American. How do you do that? Its amazing!

• FastEddy | Apr 04, 2012, 11:37 AM EDT

  Creeping Meatballism: incremental increases in taxes, fees, fines, vigorish, tithes, tributes to g'ment while g'ment employee numbers steadily increase, fattened pensions, bloated paychecks escalate beyond sensibilities. All inflation is caused by government, government prints the money and government can too easily print too much.

• GeorgeDillon | Apr 04, 2012, 10:47 AM EDT

  Bythebay: That's quite simplistic. The government wants the Irish people to give it money, but the government is giving ten times that amount to the European Union. I support the folks who are making a stand on this. I'll bet our regular Irish loudmouths on this site--posters such as Cairadextie, oloingsigh etc.--paid their levy like the good little sheep they are. Though I hear that if you were on welfare you didn't have to pay. That means sirpeter escaped.

• Murph46 | Apr 04, 2012, 10:12 AM EDT

  Remember taxation is one of the ways Brits took Irish lands,beware the Gombeen man!