NEW YORK BOSTON |#Popular: Irish Celebrity Gossip Irish Pubs Irish Festivals Irish Roots Irish Entertainment Offbeat Irish

Home Page > News > Gays not winning gay marriage debate says Catholic group

Gays not winning gay marriage debate says Catholic group

Point to 31 states who have rejected, with several more to come

PATRICK ROBERTS,

IrishCentral.com Columnist

Published Thursday, June 30, 2011, 2:53 PM

Updated Thursday, June 30, 2011, 2:53 PM

Larger Text

E-mail

17 Comments

Who is winning the gay marriage debate?

Who is winning the gay marriage debate? Is is not the gays says a leading Catholic organization despite the New York State victory.

Brian Burch of CatholicVote.org claims that far from there being a wave of support for gay marriage the New York vote is a rare exception.

He says only six states have passed gay marriage bills and that already a backlash has developed.

He notes whenever there was a vote the result was clear;

"In the 31 states where voters have been given the choice to redefine marriage -- we have won every time. Next November, Minnesota voters have the opportunity to become the 32nd state and North Carolina may not be far behind. "

As for the six who passed he claims the people who brought about the passage have already been punished.

He writes: "And what about those six states already with same-sex marriage?

"Voters in Iowa last year threw out three of their state Supreme Court judges that had decreed same-sex marriage. The Iowa State House has since strongly voted in support of a marriage amendment, and if Republicans can regain the State Senate, they likely will call for a vote in that chamber.

And in New Hampshire, politicians who supported so-called same-sex ‘marriage’ were booted out of office last November. As we write, significant efforts are already underway to oust the turncoat Republicans in New York that switched sides and voted for this new law. "

He states that "This year too, voter pressure stopped efforts to re-define marriage in both Rhode Island and Maryland.

He claims "Friday’s vote in New York may in fact represent the high water mark in the effort to redefine marriage in the United States. "

That is certainly a different perspective.

-------------------

Daniel O’Donnell reveals what gay marriage means to him

Gay rights landmark in New York City bill

-------------------

Nster.com

E-mail

17 Comments

See all comments

helmet365 | Jul 03, 2011, 05:32 AM EDT

I agree it is none of their business. They speak as if their 2000 year old beliefs come from God. God has not manifested himself or herself to anyone.They are just following the sheep and have become enslaved .If a horse had a god it would be a horse which cannot express who we are,so to we cannot express who god is. Don't worry the churches are dying ,the younger generation are ignoring them.Gay marriage make for a normal non bigoted society and are happening faster than than these people can stop it. Let them live in their little world of non existent sin and judgement,they are only harmimg themselves.

Report abuse

CaptainCon | Jul 03, 2011, 04:35 AM EDT

'Catholic Church Outraged By Something That Is Quite Frankly None Of Their Business Shocker. Again.' isn't it about time that all religious leaders were emailed and told to mind their own flock and keep their noses out of everyone else's business? Where did this weird idea arise that because one is a member of a religious group that one has the right all of a sudden to poke the nose over the garden fence and police the neighbours? Don't like abortion? Don't have one. Not keen on homosexuality? Try not to do it. Simple.

Report abuse

jacersagain | Jul 02, 2011, 10:11 PM EDT

I couldn’t agree more with tempranillo and (unusually for me) with JuneAnnette’s posts. I have previously stated that I was delighted that legislation in Ireland finally acknowledged the CIVIL rights of LGBT people towards each others’ capitalised- or socialised-properties after a lifetime together. However, there is little point in discussing gay marriage; no matter what cloak you place it under or over, it can never ever exist in reality. Even a civil marriage between LGBT people is a farcical event, however joyfully and colourfully they may celebrate it. No, I don’t think tempranillo has missed anything. A true marriage can only exist between a man and a woman... whether it be civil, sacramental or both. Every other agreement between those unfortunate to be otherwise misled can only be a legal business partnership agreement, as in legal matters – in less tasteful language it means “I mess with you and you mess with me and guaranteed we’ll both end messed up but I love you so much that I still want everything you have”. And we all know how acrimonious all civil and business partnership agreements end up. Sorry, no, I have to say that gays are never going to win a competition that, in truth, doesn’t exist. It’s a bitch of a world for some people, yet Christians are obliged, as SVPMal infers, to respect them as equal sinners in our failures to love God and our own neighbours. Love the God and the neighbour, hate the sin, as Jesus called upon all of us to do. I try, but I get exaperated sometimes. Help? Anyone? Saints of God Almighty, where are you now, when I, and many others needs you??

Report abuse

tempranillo | Jul 02, 2011, 06:47 PM EDT

Guys---this is a CIVIL matter; not sacramental...or, am i missing something?

Report abuse

JuneAnnette | Jul 02, 2011, 01:57 PM EDT

SCVMalcolm . . homosexual marriage is in view in this discussion. Throughout the Bible God denounces sin in whatever form it takes and that includes the sin of sexual immorality, in any form it takes. The inspired Word of God encompasses both the Old & New Testament. If you would prayerfully, thoughtfully and honestly read Rom. 1:20-32 you would recognize the sin of homosexuality is included in the list of sins mentioned in these verses. See also: 1 Cor. 6:9-11: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."****The phrase: "And such were some of you" sets forth the gospel truth that Christ came to save sinners, not so they would continue in their sin, but rather be set at liberty to serve God in sincerity and in truth and to do his will. When Christ confronted the women caught in adultery, he did not condone her sin, but rather exhorted her to "go, and sin no more." Christ came to save His people from their sins, not leave them in them! (Matt. 1:21)

Report abuse

SCVMal | Jul 02, 2011, 12:40 PM EDT

JuneAnnette, When the Apostles asked Jesus which was the greatest of the 10 Commandments, He condensed them to two: Love God with our all and Love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality. The Bible has maybe 7 references to homosexuality, but over 500 to heterosexuals. that does not mean that gays are favored by God, just that heterosexuals need more looking after.

Report abuse

JuneAnnette | Jul 02, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT

The fact that governments sanction / legislate homosexual marriage does not make it right in the sight of God. Those who profess to know Christ desire to keep his commandments. In John 14:15, Christ said: “If ye love me keep my commandments.” And again in John 14:23-24, it is written: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings, and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.” Again in 1 John 2:3: “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments is a liar, and the truth it is not in him.” So irregardless of what the law of the land affirms, the law of God which encompasses his commandments . . his precepts . . his statutes . . his word . . is for the professing Christian the final authority and is non-negotiable. If you read God's Word, you will know that “the friendship of the world is enmity with God.” (James4:4) (see also John 15:19; 1 John 2:15) God's Word defines marriage and it is plain enough. In Genesis 2:24 . . it is written: “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” In Matthew 19, verses 4 and 5, Christ declares:“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, for this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh.”

Report abuse

CitizenWhy | Jul 01, 2011, 05:50 PM EDT

Pew research reports that US Catholics are split 48%-48% in regard to gay marriage. The only religious groups with a majority in opposition are fundamentalist or Bible only Protestants. The Catholic acceptance of gay marriage has been steadily climbing.

Report abuse

hollabackgurl | Jul 01, 2011, 03:50 PM EDT

Which 'reality' do you think you're acknowledging, Toronthab? Gay people have for centuries fathered or given birth to children; look at our own Oscar Wilde and Brendan Behan. They were still gay. The capacity to father or conceive a child does not make you more natural than anyone else. It's not a race. Many heterosexuals are infertile, you insult them with your slide scale of natural to unnatural. I can't believe you really buy into the nonsense you type. You should think more.

Report abuse

Toronthab | Jul 01, 2011, 01:39 PM EDT

It's so funny in this age of the not-so-ne atheism to read the usual half truths and distortions concerning the Catholic ancestors of the Irish people. They were amazing. The 'dark' ages were dark until the church, meaning all of us, put together the building blocks of civilization, science and even prosperity. The english speaking nations myths about the Spanish Inquisition... a gross distortion..and a political one at that, protested by the pope.. is but one of the unnuanced and infact fabricated bits of frank bigotry that has floated about for centuries. To the atheists... dust really didn't magically 'self' organize to create the wonders of the world, but a compassionate giving Love who calls us to love each other faithfully and responsibly. I have yet to see the biological basis for homosexual acts. Get sane and give us a break!It is not 'hateful' to acknowledge reality as simple reality.

Report abuse

eiriamach | Jul 01, 2011, 12:03 PM EDT

It is not an "ideological revamping of marriage," as Gearoid4 calls it. It is plain justice. It gives equal treatment to all, without regard to sex, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc. It represents a rejection of discrimination against gays and lesbians. And for this reason, it will ultimately triumph. Americans do not like discrimination or exclusion, especially when the law sanctions it. Nor do we like church definitions of social institutions shaping our laws. The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) is unconstitutional federal law, and it faces inevitable repeal or rejection by review courts. In a pluralist nation that embraces separation of church and state, no one religion can impose its dogmas on the population. If Catholics keep trying to impose male-female-only marriage, it will become increasingly difficult for Catholics to be elected to political office in all but the most conservative districts. Who loses out when that happens?

Report abuse

hollabackgurl | Jul 01, 2011, 12:31 AM EDT

The inquisition, or the Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis (the inquiry on heretical perversity - sound familiar?) wasn't a 'misdeed,' for God's sake. It was a centuries long reign of terror that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of innocent men and women. Those are the values that underpinned Catholicism for centuries. We wised up, so should you Geroid4.

Report abuse

Gearoid4 | Jun 30, 2011, 07:17 PM EDT

Yeah, Stanley that is right, the Church is one of the last beacons of reasoned sanity in the World regarding the preservation of values which have underpinned Western society for well over a thousand years. 'Same-sex' marriage is a parody of the common understanding of marriage i.e union of one man and one woman open to procreation which has been consistently one of these values. As Brian Burch of Catholic.vote argues the vote to pass this piece of legislation in NY is rather anomalous when one considers the 31 states which voted to retain the traditional view of marriage. Just because countries in the West and beyond have fallen under the sway of this secularist/humanist movement which seeks to impose this ideological revamping of marriage, does not mean it will ultimately triumph

Report abuse

Gearoid4 | Jun 30, 2011, 07:15 PM EDT

Your grasp of history seems to be very shaky as you run through the usual half truths and ridiculous claims that the enemies of the Church have laid at her door regarding past misdeeds. The dark ages were not so dark I'm afraid as Catholic monks transcribed the classical literature of ancient Rome and Greece and preserved it for posterity. It was medieval scientific discoveries, methods, and principles that made possible western civilization’s “Scientific Revolution”. The Middle-Ages saw the growth of universities across Catholic Europe and it produced a theological giant in the person of Thomas Aquinas who is still influencing philosophical thought today. The preposterous claim that Christian crusaders killed 'millions of muslims' would be refuted by any decent scholar of that historical period. The Inquisition periods were by modern standards dark periods in Church history but often were more humane that the contemporary secular judicial law-systems and death sentences were relatively rare. You go on to give Hitler as an example of someone who should have been ex-communicated for his monstrous crimes. Hitler had long since denied the truth of Catholic Christianity before he came to power and ex-communicated himself because of his notorious crimes against humanity. He was chiefly influenced by nationalist, pagan movements which were had deep strains of anti-semitism in them and originated in 19th century Germany. As for your notion that the death-knell of the Church is near, I would reckon that you should think again on that Stanley, as Jesus Christ her founder promised that the "gates of hades" would not prevail against her.

Report abuse

stanJames | Jun 30, 2011, 04:59 PM EDT

Look for the next inquistion from the vatican. They will do anything and say anything to protect themselves in what is nothing but hatred couched in relgion they have to know that NY will affect some other states, eg the languising CU bill in the RI senate was suddenly revived and passed And if you look around the world, the USA is almost the last of the westernized nations without legal recognition of gay couples. If the USA follows eg W. Europe, it will sound the death knell of the church's campaign to keep gays as less then equal, and demonizing them, eg calling them intrinsicly disorded. And the church will reap what it sowed. Disdain, and the loss of most of the northern Hemisphere westernized nations just as it has lost almost all of western Europe the church dug its own grave. Our job is to shovel its dirt in over it. And so many people who are cowed by the church, to borrow a phrase from the Martyrd Martin Luther King, will come to say "free at last, free at last......... The only crime being it didnt happen 1500 years ago. To have prevented the 1000 year dark ages , the chritian crusades that murdered tens of millions of muslims, the anything but Holy inquistion. And also in our time, its likely that WWII would not have happened because there wouldn't have been the hatred of the Jewes that hitler leveraged to gain power. And the horror show is that hitler, a baptised catholic, has not yet been EXcommunciated despite his being the worst murdere in history. No excuses on that one.

Report abuse