123 Comments

• bob mcbride | Dec 16, 2012, 09:24 AM EST

  In order for the irish,northern irish, british,catholic,protestant,transplanted scot or whatever the hell you call yourself to have a utopian society. Maybe you should quit having stupid census reports that continues to divide people. Everybody needs a place to sleep,eat,and play! Chase the foreign bankers out first don't let them divide and conquer use your brains counihan!

• seanomelb | Dec 15, 2012, 11:05 PM EST

  If only 28% of northern nationalists classify themselves as Catholics why do 42% of passport holders have irish passports???

• curtisjohnson | Dec 15, 2012, 10:12 PM EST

  Dark but perhaps it is developing that way, seamus60 - the root of most of it being degnerate anglo-dutch materialism.

• seamus60 | Dec 15, 2012, 01:20 PM EST

  We may well be arguing over issues that won`t matter in the not too far future. As we are all being sucked into a new world order. One where nothing will matter more than whether your personal chip is working properly. Anyone not complying to the orders of the world guardians, will find themselves with wonky chips, making life very difficult and no one prepared to speak on their behalf.

• curtisjohnson | Dec 15, 2012, 11:04 AM EST

  STEVENSTAR " Why the Northern part of my Country gives Americans so much concern and worry ill never know. It has nothing to do with you" Like it or not the harsh reality is that without Americans their would be no independent Irish state and the indigenous population would have been cleansed from the North long ago.

• STEVENSTAR | Dec 15, 2012, 10:45 AM EST

  Why the Northern part of my Country gives Americans so much concern and worry ill never know. It has nothing to do with you . You live on a different continent and so far removed from Ireland and the Irish way of life its just comical... If i was you id focus more on your own country and its problems with guns etc... and nutcases going into Schools shooting kids and id forget about the people of Northern Ireland and all your opions as its totally irrelevant to all of you..

• Seanmor | Dec 15, 2012, 02:33 AM EST

  One can easily understand why only 28% of the Catholics in the Six-Counties identify themselves as Irish, since successive governmenthe in the Southern Irish state have regarded the North's population as foreign people and their territory as alien soil.

• seanomelb | Dec 14, 2012, 05:37 PM EST

  Here we go agin ciara wanting to stifle everyone elses opinion,butt out if you do not wish to add to the debate Your last five line are flawed and puerile to the extreme.

• Gearoid4 | Dec 14, 2012, 04:38 PM EST

  The term "northern" Irish as a "nationality" in the context of the partitioned 6 partitioned counties, always seemed to me to be illogical from many angles. Donegal contains the furthest point north in Ireland, namely Malin Head, but yet it does not feature in the "northern" Ireland state. There is nothing to separate Donegal(or Monaghan or Cavan) in any meaningful ethnic, social or cultural sense from those six counties. The "northern" Irish identity seems to be me to be at best regional within the Island nation of Ireland and should encompass such areas as northern Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan, Louth and Sligo if it is to be credible. I see it on the same level as someone from Rochdale claiming to be northern English, someone from the Isle of Skye referring to themselves as northern Scottish or a person from the town of Wrexham claiming to be northern Welsh. These are not national identities but geographical or regional ones, and it applies to the northern Irish identity as well.

• ciaradexy | Dec 14, 2012, 03:09 PM EST

  Maybe this story needs to be reported properly, 25% of those who live in NI class themselves as Irish, 40% as British, 21% Northern Irish and 7% are neither Irish or British. This shows that the majority want to remain part of the UK and do not want a united Ireland. Leave them to it, its no one elses business unless you live there.

• ancavker | Dec 14, 2012, 10:57 AM EST

  Citizen: The initial early violence was bad, but by 1923 or so, it had pretty much died off. Comparing the U.S., to the U.K. is a stretch. Yes the English put together the U.K. only problem with that is they did not really check with the residents of the various parts before it was put together. I don't believe the tax payers should (English) should continue to pay for a place that brings nothing to the table. The English people have the right to stop this.Also to say things were not handled perfectly is an understatement. I would have even been Ok with a temporary partition of the country, had it been done the way Lloyd George presented it to Michael Collins. As far as the IRA attacking isolated Protestants, I dont believe it was because they were just Protestant, but rather perceived as aiding continued British rule. I will take south Armagh off your hands, but no deal on swapping Donegal for Fermanagh. We northern Irish like to look out for each other!

• citizen69 | Dec 14, 2012, 09:18 AM EST

  @ancavker: But we ARE part of the same country as London, it's called the United Kingdom. Should Mainland USA support Alaska or Hawaii? It was the English that put the UK together, they weren't unwilling bedfellows in all of this. Its a bit disingenuous to call the IRA violence of the twenties in NI "annoying but no big deal". I'm sure the families of those murdered wouldn't have thought so. Many people on both sides were killed in the civil unrest back then. In just one incident 8 protestants were killed by a bomb on a tram in east Belfast and the southern IRA made many excursions over the border to attack isolated protestants. It was a very bloody period for both sides. I don't pretend for a second that everything was handled perfectly here in NI but we are were we are today as a result of all that has gone on in the past, no side has clean hands. Anyway, maybe we can do a deal regarding the Donegal - Fermanagh thing... although Fermanagh is beautiful too, so would you take Larne!? We'll even throw in South Armagh! ;-)

• ancavker | Dec 14, 2012, 08:35 AM EST

  citizen: Many Irish are culturally not Really British, but English, as they think everything from ENgland is better, or more fashionable. They cringe at their own. Much of this of course comes from an inferiority complex that many Irish have. Also they cannot maje up their minds about my good Plastic Paddies in Eugland. On one hand they are obsessed with English football teams like of course Manchester United, and they say part of that reason is because many of the players have Irish connections, and yet they bash those same Plastic Paddies who are proud of those Irish connections.

• ancavker | Dec 14, 2012, 08:30 AM EST

  citizen: Oh no, I criticize the catholics/nationalists too, for the welfare/dole, and all the othe goodies. That is why so many now would chose to remain in the UK. Not because they feel British, or are loyal, simply because they get free money.More so now after the people/government in the south have made a mess of the place. There is one thing about subsidizing poorer areas in England, the same is done in the U.S., quite another in subsidizing people in another country. You did have 50 years of little violence to build a successful inclusive northern Ireland. The IRA attacks were pathetic and unsuccessful. You had the armed RUC, the UDR, and the B-Specials the IRA violence then was light a fly on an elephant, annoying but no big deal. Had the Catholics not been treated like second class citizens in their own country we would not have had th heartache of the troubles. Peaceful civil rights demonstrations, and all the rest met with ciolence from the loyalists. Sunningdale in 1973, a reasonable compromise bought down by loyalist violence, and the madness continued for another 25 years. This is your legacy of what youcreated in northern Ireland. By the way you may not have Donegal, I do want my Fermanagh back. And you do know that at the time had the wishes of the majority of people been taken into consideration you neve should have gotten Fermanagh, Tyrone, west Derry, and sout Armagh.

• IrelandNorth | Dec 14, 2012, 07:50 AM EST

  If 21% of NI Census (NIC) identify themselves as Northern Irish (NI) only, fly the Ulsterised Saint Patrick's Cross 77 days per year (dpy). If 25% identify themselves as Irish only, fly the Irish tricolour 91 dpy. If 40% identify themselves as British only, fly the union jack 146 dpy. Since 14% of NIC declare no or none nationality, redistribute their 51 dpy to NI/Irish and British identities (ie 17 per national identity (tot 94/108/163 dpy)). Or fly the flags of those with dual national identity simultaneously for those 51 dpy. PS Loyalists will have to emend their protest placards to read: "Ulster is [40%] British!" Or: "Ulster is British[-ish]!"

• citizen69 | Dec 14, 2012, 07:08 AM EST

  @ancavker: So it's only loyalists who claim benefits in NI is it? And it the only reason they are British? What stupid condescending remarks. Unionists didn't exactly have 50 years of trouble free rule to put things right. The IRA attacks started from the moment of it's inception. Almost every region in the UK is dependent on London. It's the capital and the one of the world's financial hubs. The tax raised here from corporations far dwarfs any other region and more of my tax pounds are spent in London than anywhere else. Your argument that NI should be dumped because it costs more than it brings in is therefore pretty dumb. Should Dublin dump Limerick, Donegal & Waterford because of their dependency on benefits? You'd have a very small country if you dumped every region that doesn't pay for itself. We wouldn't mind taking Donegal back off your hands but you can keep the rest of the spongers!

• Thomas84 | Dec 14, 2012, 05:34 AM EST

  I have news for you darragh, the republic of Ireland was founded by IRA types , fought for by IRA types and defended by IRA types while your type was desperatly trying to remain in the union with britain. Your opinion is at best moronic. The people Ireland does need are the types who would vote for a party that gives our future away to the unelected leaders of the european union, i wonder who you voted for last time ? The Ireland i would like to see would include every single human being on it. It would not exclude anyone not even one side of the paramilitary violence that has gone on.

• citizen69 | Dec 14, 2012, 05:23 AM EST

  Truth is Northern Irish unionists are geographically Irish but overwhelmingly are not politically or culturally Irish. There are many reasons for that. In fact Irish people are much more culturally British than Unionists are culturally Irish. I am one of the small percentage of people who described themselves as British & Irish in the 2011 census.

• darragh S | Dec 14, 2012, 03:00 AM EST

  I have news for all you IRA types. The republic of Ireland wants a united Ireland but it does not include you.

• Thomas84 | Dec 13, 2012, 10:43 PM EST

  Let me guess this straight ... Northern Irish people (N.Irish) are not Irish, even though they are born and live all their lives in Ireland, they are not Irish. Instead they are british, which is an island they might never actually step foot on ...... Madeline dear, either wake up, or shut up because apparently speaking isnt doing you any favours.

• anglo-norman | Dec 13, 2012, 09:35 PM EST

  Northern Irish british are IRISH...even David Ervine said as much. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

• Madeliene | Dec 13, 2012, 07:43 PM EST

  Norhern irish British are not now and never will be Irish people.

• seamus60 | Dec 13, 2012, 07:30 PM EST

  Although the figures can be manipulated depending on ones perspective, it makes bad reading for a border poll at this time.

• ancavker | Dec 13, 2012, 09:17 AM EST

  Anglo-Clueless Perhaps you cna give us some examples of those British names that were Gaelicized? And no one is a pedigree son.

• ancavker | Dec 13, 2012, 09:15 AM EST

  citizen: I focus on it because all of the so called loyalty of the Unionists is because of welfare handouts from British taxpayers. And the economy in the north was in rpaide decline years before the Provo's and their disastrous bombing campaign. That said the unionist community had 50 years to build a thriving economy and society that treated all its residents fairly and with dignity. Of course that did not happen. And the British government finally dismantled Stormont and the little fascist police state set up in 1922. As far as the south, if you look at my posts, I criticize them too all the time. Free money for this child allownaces for that, grants for other nonsense, and on it goes. I have family members who take the free money even though they do not need it, but everyone else takes it so they do. And when I come home to visit, i just shake my head. Things are so bad, and yet the pubs are packed. So yes I do criticize the south as well. But at least the south is taking the handouts from all of Europe,just like other basket case countries in Europe. In the north, it is the English taxpayer who is directly subsidizing residents in the six counties and for what? Whatever taxes you payarea drop i in the bucket in comparison to what England pours in there every year.

• bobby | Dec 13, 2012, 08:32 AM EST

  @anglonorman, do you ever give it at rest? Its obvious you don't like Ireland or the Irish by reading your comments. So much hatred in you. Why bother.

• curtisjohnson | Dec 12, 2012, 10:08 PM EST

  Site keeps deleting my posts. In short, genetic studies unequivocally demonstrate that the majority of Irish are indigenous and carry specific variants of the R1b haplotype that are unique to ancient Ireland (one has even been traced to a single progenitor, speculated to be Niall of the Nine Hostages). Many Gaelic names were anglicized or just changes due to the british terror state’s restrictions on indigenous populations living within the territories they controlled.

• seanomelb | Dec 12, 2012, 09:42 PM EST

  Still waiting to hear what your mongrel mix is. It's your turn of phrase not mine little fella.

• STEVENSTAR | Dec 12, 2012, 08:22 PM EST

  WHAT GAP ? IM IRISH I LIVE IN IRELAND AND I HAVE CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT FRIENDS AND FAMILY AS WELL AS A LOT OF BRITISH FRIENDS AND FAMILY ... THERE IS NO GAP WE ARE ALL SOOO SIMILAR ... I LOVE MY NEIGHBORS WHICH IS THE UK ... I DREAD TO THINK IF IRELAND WA GEOGRAPHICALLY S LOCATED NEXT TO SYRIA, SUDAN , NIGERIA OR SOUTH AFRICA AND WHAT A MESS OUR COUNTRY WOULD BE IN ... SO I COUNT MYSELF LUCKY AS AN IRISHMAN LIVING NEXT TO THE UK...AND TO HELL WITH ALL THE AMERICANS AND ( FAR AND FEA IRISHH ) REPUBLICANS WHO ARE FAR AND FEW IN THE YEAR 2012 !!

• bobby | Dec 12, 2012, 08:17 PM EST

  @citizen69, N.I drains money from westminster, what you pay in taxes in N.I would not cover you, Fact is N.I & Scotland are a burden to the english taxpayer. Since Ireland joined the E.U they received €58 billion, they paid €25 billion back in. The E.U benefits alot more from Ireland as a member than what Ireland received. They took away the majority of Irelands fishing waters, its biggest natural resourse. The EU have taken around €200 billion in raw fish out of irish waters.

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 06:23 PM EST

  @Ancavker: how come you don't seem to be able to mention Northern Ireland without bringing up welfare & benefits? You seem to have some obsession with it. The south has a bigger percentage of unemployed people than the north. I, like most people in NI have a job and pay my taxes directly to Westminster. NI tax payer contribute their fair share like everyone else. My money goes into the coffers of the UK just as every Scot, English & Welshman's does. ULster used to have the strongest economy in Ireland but when you have the Provos bombing the hell out of the place for 35 years, deliberately targeting the economy and destroying jobs, infrastructure & tourism then what do you expect? Sinn Fein can take a sizeable portion of the blame as to why so many of their own constituents are unemployed. Even with all that has happened we are still not as big a drain as some parts of northern England and Scotland. Maybe you should look at your own country's drain on the European Union for the last few decades from which you have taken way more than you ever put in.

• seanomelb | Dec 12, 2012, 05:38 PM EST

  Anglo I wonder what mongrel mix you have. I notce you turn to thh word"son" in a derogatory term when your frail sensibilties are hurt.

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 05:30 PM EST

  citizen: The English don' want you guys. You bring nothing to the table, you just suck welfare out of the poor tax paying English and Scots. You guys would rather take it form those who have it, then make a go of it yourselves.

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 05:26 PM EST

  Anglo-Norman All People are mongrels, including the English. When the various invaders came, we did a very good job of absorbing them, including the Normans. Who by the way have faded into history. As far as Fitzpatrick learn your history son! Do your homework, it is the only Fitz name that is Gaelic in origin. Got that son!!

• anglo-norman | Dec 12, 2012, 05:12 PM EST

  The Irish of both sides need to stop being so petty & selfish. MOVE THE FCUK ON!!!!!

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 05:11 PM EST

  @anglo-norman Well at least we can agree that there is a breeding problem with the royal family! LOL, I might be a bit overly sensitive. I only have 1 dog go after you,OK? Is that better?

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 05:01 PM EST

  @Mortimer74: "all the years of material and educational advantage under apartheid"??? Seriously, how are you working that one out friend? explain.

• anglo-norman | Dec 12, 2012, 04:54 PM EST

  Spot om mortimer... It would be better all round for everyone. The South also has to get it's act together as well & join the 21st century!!

• anglo-norman | Dec 12, 2012, 04:44 PM EST

  stephen- So says the guy who wants me to come to dublin for a hiding!! lol. All people are basically mongrels son, look at the Royal Family... Stop being so sensitive son!!!

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 04:24 PM EST

  @anglo-norman I have had many disagreements with loyalists here,had a few laughs with them too. Nothing personal in the arguements. With you it's different. You insult people personaly. I almost pity you for the hate you have inside.You make me proud to be an Irish 'mongrel' as you so eliquently put it. Citizen69-The only reason Sinn Fein has not removed that lunar flag is because it is not british! And the only reason NI is still in brisish control is because the Irish there have not sucked the last drop of british blood out of tyhe welfare paradise they call britian. Unfortunately the british mainland is seeing the bloodletting and starting to catch on. Is a shame, it was nice cashing those british checks!

• Mortimer74 | Dec 12, 2012, 04:15 PM EST

  As an Englishman I can't wait to the day that the failed statelet becomes part of a reunited Ireland. One point that most of the hold-outs are missing on here: demographics! The Catholic population is younger, and better educated. As has been pointed out elsewhere, despite all the years of material and educational advantage under apartheid, the average loyalist today is an aging, bitter, intellectually and politically challenged anachronism. Come the day!!!

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 04:05 PM EST

  @woundedKnee: I don't think posts are being censored here, i think it's just the crap system they use. Its a nightmare, posts keep disappearing or they post multiple times like mine below. @stephendoyle: Ah well, if A UI eventually comes i can blast off to my little moon colony of New Ulster! At least the American flag stands on the moon 365 days of the year without Sinn Fein threatening to take it down!

• anglo-norman | Dec 12, 2012, 04:04 PM EST

  stephendoyle- Is Doyle a genuine Irish name? As regards the forcing out of the mighty british well we all know the real truth son.

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 03:58 PM EST

  @anglo-norman Well now, if memory serves me right it was us 'mongrels' that forced the mighty british empire out of the Irish Republic. Been a nice show watching the empire crumble like old bread.If you are ever in Dublin, come look me up. I have a few 'mongrels' that would love to take a bite out of you!

• WoundedKnee | Dec 12, 2012, 03:38 PM EST

  How come my post refuting TomSwinford's insulting and racist diatribe was pulled by Irish Central? Is this guy's hate-filled nonsense protected speech as far as IC is concerned? That's OK with me, but why does IC censor posters who show this guy up? If stupidity is protected then criticism of stupidity should be even more so.

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 03:32 PM EST

  @Citizen69-LOL, I bought a lunar acre also. Well now there will at least be an Irish Nationalist and Loyalist represented in lunar affairs. Maybe we'll take up a lunar poll to unite? On this one I'll agree to disagree with you as I know that time is on my side on this issue. ONE IRELAND FOREVER!

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 03:23 PM EST

  @stephendoyle: Plots of one square foot available at the Gathering you say? That'll be another shameless scheme to rip-off gullible Americans then. The gift that keeps on giving! No thanks, i've already bought an acre on the moon. No dream my friend, you need to check out all the opinion polls of the last few decades.

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 03:23 PM EST

  @stephendoyle: Plots of one square foot available at the Gathering you say? That'll be another shameless scheme to rip-off gullible Americans then. The gift that keeps on giving! No thanks, i've already bought an acre on the moon. No dream my friend, you need to check out all the opinion polls of the last few decades.

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 03:20 PM EST

  @stephendoyle: Plots of one square foot for sale at the Gathering you say? That'll be another shameless scheme to rip off gullible Americans then!? The gift that keeps on giving. No thanks, i've already got an acre on the moon. Seriously though, you need to check the opinion polls for the last few decades, a large portion of Catholics have no interest in a UI.

• bobby | Dec 12, 2012, 03:17 PM EST

  @citizen69 at least 90% of the english do not want N.I part of the UK.

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 02:20 PM EST

  @citizen69 - Dream On,Dream ON. I say a website that is selling 1 sq foot plots of land in Ireland, some scheme pertaining to the Gathering. Better buy a plot, it will be the only part of Ireland you will own.

• citizen69 | Dec 12, 2012, 01:51 PM EST

  @stephendoyle: You forgot to mention in your example below that at least 10 of those 25 catholics don't want a united Ireland. That makes it 30 to 15 for the UK!

• stephendoyle | Dec 12, 2012, 12:27 PM EST

  One last comment on the percentage situation developing. It has been pointed out many times that a large portion of the population is just apathetic to a united Ireland, be they Polish immigrants or just Irish. That doesn't hurt a bit my british friends. You just don't get it I think. Here's an example- 100 people in a room. 20 protestants,25 catholics and 55 apathetic people who don't care and don't vote. 25-20 we still win!Apathy doesn't hurt the uniters nearly as much as the loyalists. The Catholics/Nationalists are growing in numbers, maybe not a clear majority but one doesn't need a vast majority as long as people sit back and don't care/vote!!!!

• warrenpoint00 | Dec 12, 2012, 11:22 AM EST

  Todays Irish Times census report shows 54,000 more prods than catholics in the north of Ireland.48% british,46% non british, time for a border referendum now.Meanwhile I am off to the MOLL(mall)that is if STEVENSTARS people have,nt burned it down, for a long walk.STEVEN is worried about my health, what ba nice caring british chap not at all like some of those bad british boys we see on t.v burning Irish property

• STEVENSTAR | Dec 12, 2012, 10:32 AM EST

  @@@@@warrenpoint00 | Dec 11, 2012, 03:35 PM EST>>>>>>>>>> I THINK YOU NEED TO GO FOR A LONG WALK TO THE MOLL AND TRY AND CALM DOWN BEFORE YOU GET A HEART ATTACK MATE ....

• chicksooze | Dec 12, 2012, 10:05 AM EST

  Ah isn't it wonderful to see all these loyalist ignorants on here panic. Your day is coming when you won't have a leg to stand on, so better start packin' yer bags and heading across the Irish sea to somewhere that you might be welcome, oh wait they don't want you either. Seems like all you hate filled excuses of human beings will be out of a home entirely. And I will enjoy watching it happen. TAL

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 09:08 AM EST

  Hey Anglo-Celt Where I am from we are all still here. Come up to west Cavan and Fermanagh,(I will be home visiting yet again)> anyhow come on up and see us. The Mcgoverns, and McGuires,, and Muldoons, and Mc Goldricks, Rooneys, Fitzpatricks, Dolans. All the old Gaelic family names, we did ntot go away you know. Even with all the wars, and plantations, anf famine etc. We are still here son!! ANd if you come I can help you pronounce our beautiful Irish townland names, and my Irish speaking spouse can help you with a cupla focal in Irish. Come see us son!!

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 08:57 AM EST

  By the time the population reaches 90% Catholic, Scotland will be out of the UK, or if in it will be a very loose federal structure And the poor English taxpayer will want to be rid of the welfare state called northern Ireland.

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 08:53 AM EST

  STEVENSTAR: For the love of God let it go. How can you possibley say the areticle ws written with hate in mind, and Americans and all the rest. Give it a rest.

• ancavker | Dec 12, 2012, 08:48 AM EST

  NAglo-Norman: Good God you are ignorant. Of course the Irish have Norman/Norse blood, as in Fitzgeralds, Doyle Walsh. When they arrived in Ireland they intermarried with the native Irish. And many of the great Norman families became indistinguishable from the great Gaelic families. The later Elizabethean planatiations (Leix and Offlay) were mostly a failure. And the real plantations took place in Ulster, which bought our northern brothers. As far as names, now listen up son. Many Irish names were Anglicized or corrupted to English approximations. A great example of this would be the name Harrington. Others simply took the names of the new landed gentry that replaced the old Gaelic families that left. When those families lost their land they either went to to province of Connaught or were shipped overseas to the Americas. The peasants remained under theie new English overlords. I suggest you read up a little more on Irish history son. Your ignorance is telling.

• IrelandNorth | Dec 12, 2012, 07:13 AM EST

  leahkinsella/ciaradexy!? A recent 50th anniversary Ipsos/MRBI poll syndicated in The Irish Times reported that 64% of a random sample of 1,000 respondents at 100 stations across the 26 counties expressed a desire for a united Ireland. 69% responded that they would be willing to pay higher taxes to fund it.

• WoundedKnee | Dec 12, 2012, 03:37 AM EST

  TomSwinford: You're lying again. Your claim that "during the "Troubles," a clear majority of Catholics" opposed a United Ireland is simply a falsehood, something you specialize in. Why do you hate Ireland? And Irish America? Is it some unresolved pathological resentment about having to emigrate as an uneducated young man all those years ago? You know nothing about Ireland, past or present, you prefer to fester in your ignorance. You're right, you belong on a ship of fools--I nominate you for captain!

• barneyjo | Dec 12, 2012, 03:04 AM EST

  @Seanomelb - they can as a non aligned grouping who may (or may not) share the views and aspirations of either of the two larger identified groupings. I merely pose the question that if a border poll was conducted, how a rump of this 7% might vote, and what result it could have on the outcome. An added 2% from this grouping to support for a pro-union stance could ensure that it remains, assuming of course that all other elegible Protestants were to vote in the same way. It seems to me, that 7% could represent a floating vote!!

• barneyjo | Dec 12, 2012, 12:01 AM EST

  Methinks we are a "Ship of Fools," as in the not-so-old movie. Lest we forget, even in the worst of times during the "Troubles," sequel, a clear majority of Catholics in Northern Ireland wished to remain part of the UK, painful as that may be to the mostly Irish American Irish Nationalists, a really weird group of relics. I know that it is comforting to these relics and others to long for this great gathering of Catholics North and South to come together in a biblical reunification - but this is a dream.Only a democratic referendum, North and South will decide this issue - and don't hold you breath, it a'int going to be any time soon.

• warrenpoint00 | Dec 11, 2012, 11:24 PM EST

  Probably had something to do with the rape,theft and pillaging expeditions into Ireland by that same great british stock.

• AlunPalmer | Dec 11, 2012, 09:27 PM EST

  And another thing! There is more than one protestant church in Northern Ireland. Historically, Church of Ireland were mostly Republican before the troubles, and most of the hardcore unionists turn out to be Presbyterians of Scottish descent when you break down the statistics. Unionists are only a subset of protestants, but OTOH there are even some Catholics who want to stay in the UK (although they keep very quiet, with the possible exception of a certain golfer).

• AlunPalmer | Dec 11, 2012, 09:18 PM EST

  What you have to understand is that, of those who carry a passport, they may have a British one or an Irish one, or both, as they are entitled to both, and even though British law doesn't allow them to have both, Irish law does. This means that many of them may simply be putting down their actual nationality in the survey, even though this may be unclear if they don't hold a passport(s).

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 08:00 PM EST

  @anglo-norman-Most Irish Catholics in the whole of Ireland are of British Stock anyway... yeah, from rape more than likely by the british.

• bobby | Dec 11, 2012, 07:59 PM EST

  Of course they do Anglo norman 800 years of occupation has alot to do with that.......

• seanomelb | Dec 11, 2012, 06:57 PM EST

  barneyjoes false logic the 7% cannot be added to the 3%. Or they can be added to Catholic or protestant figures in your reading of the poll. I see anglo is having a dizzy day with another pearl of dung.

• barneyjo | Dec 11, 2012, 06:49 PM EST

  @Pittsburghkid - Seriously, you need to lose the rose - tinted glasses and then look again at the data from the census. A 3% buffer in favour of Protestants, with a further 7% stating "neither" as their religious affiliation. So thats 10% if my calculations are correct. A lame argument that has lost credibility long ago. Not going to happen on any date this side of the end of the Mayan Calendar :)!!

• Bocktherobber | Dec 11, 2012, 05:55 PM EST

  You have no idea whose thinking you just voiced, do you? Of course you don't.

• seanomelb | Dec 11, 2012, 05:51 PM EST

  The day is coming, not long to go now. First minister Matin and the reunification"the day is nigh"

• Pittsburghkid | Dec 11, 2012, 05:45 PM EST

  The mothers of Northern Ireland deserve a statue. All the bombs, and machine gun could have done, what the mothers of Northern Ireland have. They out produced the Protestant woman. The did it in an oppressive economy. These woman had every reason to turn to abortion, but chose life. Now they are on the verge of victory.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 05:30 PM EST

  @WoundedKnee-Give me an apathetic Pole over a oppressive loyalist any day. Give me someone who doesn't give a damn over someone who hates me because of my religion any day. Give me someone that doesn't care aboiut unification over someone that fights to the death against it. Yes laddie, the Poles look pretty good in comparrison to loyalists such as you....

• Bocktherobber | Dec 11, 2012, 05:22 PM EST

  As I have said so often before, it doesn't matter what Irish Central writes about. Eventually, someone will try to change the subject to Polish immigration. It happens every time.

• WoundedKnee | Dec 11, 2012, 04:54 PM EST

  What posters such as StephenDoyle and others miss completely is the fact that the population of the 26 Counties is predicted to be majority non-Irish ethnic by the 2030s or 2040s. Those folks won't have the slightest interest in a united Ireland. There'll be more support for uniting the South of Ireland with Poland than for uniting it with the North.

• kubs | Dec 11, 2012, 04:22 PM EST

  Loyalist David Irvine's quote is eerily similar to (Anglo-Irish Protestant) republican Wolfe Tone's sentiments about a united Ireland. May both of these fine men get their wish soon.

• Mortimer74 | Dec 11, 2012, 04:22 PM EST

  Gearoid4, good point. ToryTory, although I think you talk drivel, I'll defend your right to do so. You're afforded rights on here that Catholics were denied in the north of Ireland for way too long. Incidentally, when there is finally an (all)Ireland football team, I'm fairly confident Protestant players won't be receiving death threats. No death threats and better chances of success. A lot to look forward to.

• barneyjo | Dec 11, 2012, 03:47 PM EST

  @Mortimer74 - "Hope is a good thing - maybe the best of things"!! and may we BOTH live to see better days. @Stephendoyle - never doubted your motives for moment; that people make peace is certain, not politicians; but pragmatism has to have its place at least in the short term. To paraphrase the Loyalist Leader David Irvine (RIP) " I AM part of the British presence in Ireland, and I am not going anywhere"!! We all seek the same thing; and thats a better place,for Protestant, Catholic, Dissenter, AND the rest :)!!

• Fitzyboy | Dec 11, 2012, 03:37 PM EST

  Should be interesting to see how all of this plays out after the Scottish vote in 2014. Not envisioning to may kumbaya moments.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 03:36 PM EST

  @lakeisle-there already is a term for everyone living on the islands. It is called " European " as in European Union...

• warrenpoint00 | Dec 11, 2012, 03:35 PM EST

  STEVENSTAR man you do not read the biggest news dailies in Ireland I guess otherwise you would have noticed that this news is in all of them.Maybe STEVEN son like a lot of anti catholic posters on here it is the message that bothers you even though you seem too blame the messenger.If I was a loyal unionist I too would be bothered if I woke up to find that 46% of the unionist enclave was not british anymore. Look at it this way you all had 88 good years of total gerrymandering in Ireland,it could,nt go on forever mate.Sorry

• ToryTory | Dec 11, 2012, 03:22 PM EST

  Geroidd4, that isn't an interesting point, it's a prosaic point. The phenomenon of 'Northern Irish' as a national signifier has been commented upon since its rapid appearance in the last decade. It isn't a meaningless appellation.

• lakeisle | Dec 11, 2012, 03:20 PM EST

  Maybe one of these days we'll come up with an 'identity term' for everyone who lives on the islands of Ireland and Britain, then whether you're Scottish, Irish, NI, English, Welsh or anything else you can identify as your own nationality and also as existing within this bigger 'two-islands' family. The goal being that we get on better with the neighbours... (I'm Irish born in Dublin and we've settled down in County Fermanagh)

• Gearoid4 | Dec 11, 2012, 02:46 PM EST

  In my last posting it should have read "Malin-Head in Donegal in Donegal is the most northerly part of Ireland and yet is not included within the boundaries of that place called "northern" Ireland.

• Gearoid4 | Dec 11, 2012, 02:40 PM EST

  Ancavker makes a very valid which exposes the illogicality of how the term "Northern Irish" is used in it's present form to denote a nationality which never existed prior to the Ireland Act of 1922. Malin-Head in Donegal is the most northerly part of Ireland and yet it is included geographically within the boundaries of that place called "northern" Ireland. There is nothing ethnically which makes people from Derry or Tyrone less Irish than the residents of Donegal or Leitrim. People from the so-called "Republic" of Ireland can avert their gaze if they want and hope that the inhabitants of that region of Ireland can get it on without any further consideration from them. But "out of sight" is not "out of mind" and this perennial national question concerning justice in the context of a partitioned Ireland will not be answered completely until the colonizers decides to withdraw their administration, soldiers and border.

• Curitiba | Dec 11, 2012, 02:38 PM EST

  Well that's funny ToryTory because demographic change is becoming a big political weapon in the rest of the UK.

• ToryTory | Dec 11, 2012, 02:34 PM EST

  Not really news - the incremental demographic change has been factored into various appraisals of NI politics for sometime. For anyone that bothers to compute them, there is no real story - the demographic change isn't a political weapon that others in the past have presupposed.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 02:04 PM EST

  @Towngate-The only "Brireland" will be the name on the back of your row boat as you paddle up and down the Thames crying for your beloved 'loyalist Ireland' that deserted you.Always nice to know there will be a few museum piaces like you around when we want to see why the Irish revolted against oppression............

• STEVENSTAR | Dec 11, 2012, 01:56 PM EST

  WHAT GAP ? THERE IS NO GAP... IM IRISH I LIVE HERE AND I HAVE FRIENDS FROM CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT BACKGROUNDS IN IRELAND AND IN THE UK .. THIS ARTICLE IS WRITTEN TO PROMITE HATRED AND A DIVISION BETWEEN US... WRITTEN BY AN AMERICAN I GUESS ??? BECAUSE WHO EVER WROTE THIS IS OUT OF TOUCH OR STUCK IN THE PAST AND WHAT A SAD PERSON TO FOCUS AND WRITE ABOUT SUCH SILLY THINGS...

• Towngate | Dec 11, 2012, 01:52 PM EST

  Just imaging the embasrrassment of the UI Brigade when the Nationalist population reaches 90% - and still votes to remain part of Great Britain! By then the offshore Province may be renamed "Brireland" by the Brirish living there.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 01:40 PM EST

  @Barneyjo- On that I can agree. Let's have a united Ireland without religious seperation. We all need to bury the past and work for a better country. I love my children as much as you love yours. I want a better Ireland for mine and yours. It will unite one day, how it unites depends on our agreeing to stop the hate and work together. How's that for a life long Catholic-Nationalist?

• leahkinsella | Dec 11, 2012, 01:33 PM EST

  There won't be a United Ieland because the majority of people in the Irish Republic (not"Free State or Sourthern Ireland") don't want it. The trouble it would cause is not worth it. I have Catholic friends in Northern Ireland who consider themselves Northern Irish or British and so do my Protestant friends who consider themselves both and they are quite entitled to. What they don't want is more deaths and violence in either side. They want to bring up their families to continue mixing together and living in peace. They do't necessarily want a UI nor do we living in the Republic.

• Mortimer74 | Dec 11, 2012, 01:28 PM EST

  barneyjo, I sincerely hope you live long enough to see it come to fruition, my friend! I appreciate your commentary.

• ancavker | Dec 11, 2012, 01:28 PM EST

  If the welfare from Britain is better than it would be in a united Ireland, than the majority will wish to remain with the UK They are totally dependent on welfare handouts. The question is how long will the people in Britain continue to subsidize these handouts. That being said Irish, Northern Irish what difference does it make, they do not identify as British. And as far as Northern Irish, than that would have to be Donegal, as it is the most northern (geogrpahically) part of Ireland. Meanwhile on the Cavan/Fermanagh border we will continue to be just Irish;like we have always been.

• RedBranch | Dec 11, 2012, 01:18 PM EST

  Quick, I'd better baptise my son Abdullah Singski, sign him up for the local OO, enrole him in a madrasa and buy him shares in Apple. Then he'd be a true citizen of Ulster.

• barneyjo | Dec 11, 2012, 01:17 PM EST

  @stephendoyle - oh I never said things wouldnt change. It is clear from the census that is the case. However I make the same two points as before; IF and when the point is reached that there is a Catholic Majority in Northern Ireland, it is a false premise that this will be the stepping stone into a 32 county sovereign Irish State. You still have not explained where the votes will come from other than the idea of "outbreeding" the other tribe and the assumption being that the majority will vote for a United Ireland. 50% 1 as the saying goes. I am not a gambler by any means but I would put money on it that you will not get that level of support or anywhere near it as long as the Unionist community dont buy into any new political dispensation on the Island of Ireland and as long as there are enough "others (new arrivals with no baggage or axe to grind). For myself, am now content to wait and do what I can in my own small way to herald the arrival of the "2ND Republic" which WILL command the respect and allegiance of all, Protestant, Catholic and dissenter. I may never see it to fruitition, but I have hopes :)

• citizen69 | Dec 11, 2012, 01:13 PM EST

  @Mortimer74: You say this is 'daily evidence of the bigotry and sectarianism that Catholics in the north have had to live with for decades' . That's fair enough but the bigotry & sectarianism comes from the Nationalist side also (although you and plenty others here would like to ignore it). Just this week alone a Protestant church has been attacked with 'Burn Orange Sc*m' painted on the walls... Orange halls have been vandalized... Workmen building a memorial to innocent victims of IRA violence were threatened and the memorial vandalized with IRA slogans... A unionist politician's house has been attacked, and to top it off Newry's nationalist politicians have decided to name a children's playground after an IRA killer. Although none of this fits in with your narrative does it??

• citizen69 | Dec 11, 2012, 01:10 PM EST

  @pilip04: Gotta love your take on this outcome. Statistics can be skewed to suit anybody's needs. For instance you say 57% are Irish or Northern Irish and therefore majority are non British. I interpret the stats as 40% say they are British, only 25% say they are Irish & 21% say they are Northern Irish. This means then that 61% identify with the UK (as British or Northern Irish) and only a quarter identify as Irish only. These interpretation in fact relates much closer to the percentage of people who want a United Ireland (from 7% to 28% depending on which pole you believe). As the old saying goes... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.".

• merefalow | Dec 11, 2012, 12:39 PM EST

  what i would like to say is screw all the flag waving sectarian hatred and move forward into the multi culteral world that we now all live in (whether we like it or not its a fact}london is now a white minority capital,the balance of power in the usa ,has swung whether they realise it or not,sam houstan and davy crocket were wasting their time,also the south of ireland,so people should learn that the real thing is to go forward into a future of justice and equality FOR ALL PEOPLE.THROWINGa petrol bomb into a car in which a human being is in is just the most dispicably cowardly action possible.the irish people have suffered so much injustice and persecution in thier own country from foriegn invasion and military domination that is beond belief.HAVING SAID THAT,SURELY IT IS TIME TO MOVE FORWARD,and if there are enough people of good will and just intent we can prevent a return to the northern ireland of old,seeing such hatred and bigotory it is hard to see reason working on people of that intransigence,so i would sugest that if they love that foriegn flag so much they should go back to where the thing originated,than they can fly it every day.nothing stays the same forever,especially injustice.

• citizen69 | Dec 11, 2012, 12:38 PM EST

  @hjolley: Actually the first time gerrymandering had been used in Ireland was in the Republic and it was used to disinfranchise Protestants in Donegal.

• pilib04 | Dec 11, 2012, 12:27 PM EST

  57% of the population in Northern Ireland now consider themselves Irish or Northern Irish, but NOT British. So much for any argument about a foreign flag (UnionJack) flying above Belfast City Council. Seems to me that the Republican parties were quite conciliatory by agreeing to the Alliance compromise to allow the Brit flag to fly 18 days a year. We certainly do not see any corresponding conciliation coming from the Loyalists unless you include the flag-riots.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 12:24 PM EST

  @Woundedknee I am not sectarian at all. My Polish comment was to a previous post saying alot of the new population in NI was Polish Catholics.I don't care where a person is from personaly, But any immigration from outside britian is at least a person not anti-Ireland,Not anti-Catholic. That is a plus in my book, a negative in yours....

• hjolley | Dec 11, 2012, 12:12 PM EST

  “Protestant state for a Protestant people.”??? You mean, a gerrymandered state for a Protestant people where you could persecute Catholics at will. As for percentages, were they of Protestant and Catholic population or voters? That was skewed, too, until One-Man-One-Vote was recognized.

• warrenpoint00 | Dec 11, 2012, 12:10 PM EST

  Twenty one percent North of Ireland and 25 percent Irish that leaves 46 per cent not british and with the motherland embarrassed at the 48 per cent of the loyalist british brethern here in Ireland I would say that the future does not look too bright for those unionists here wanting to retain the british link.

• WoundedKnee | Dec 11, 2012, 11:59 AM EST

  StephenDoyle--Why are you so religiously sectarian? Poles, Lithuanians etc are predominantly Catholic, but they don't have the slightest interest in a united Ireland. In fact most of them don't know the difference between Britain and Ireland, though they do know which country has the best welfare. I can't see why you get off on Polish immigration into Ireland, North or South--their presence favors the status quo.

• citizen69 | Dec 11, 2012, 11:39 AM EST

  Hmmm, one wonders why Irish Central didn't go with the headline: "Just 25% say they are Irish only in latest Northern Ireland census"? Oh that's right, it's because it's a Republican propaganda site!

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 11:13 AM EST

  @Joe It was just a lame attempt at humor. I am sure there were hundreds of factors affecting Irish birth rates, Catholic decrees only be one of them.

• Silling | Dec 11, 2012, 11:12 AM EST

  Oh my dark Rosaleen, do not sigh, do not weep, the priests are on the ocean green, they march along the deep. There is wine from the royal POPE to give you health and wealth and hope, my dark Rosaleen, my own Rosaleen. For Joe Kelsall. Happy Christmas Joe.

• Joe Kelsall | Dec 11, 2012, 10:57 AM EST

  Stephendoyle; I think that the Southern Irish population boom was born out of fecundityfollowing aperiod of struggle and hunger rather than anything the Pope said!

• Mortimer74 | Dec 11, 2012, 10:11 AM EST

  Bobby, back of the net.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 10:08 AM EST

  @Eschetic-WTF were you saying? Can you dumb it down alittle? Barneyjo- We Irish tend to drink too much,fight too much and I guess in your view we breed to much! But there is one thing we do well, and that is stick together when it comes to outside agitators, which is all britian is in Ireland. They have never walked away peacefully from anything they stole. They had to pull the army out as it was very bad publicity to have paratroopers gunning down unarmed civilians. Now it is the thin red line of loyalists that are " defenders of the faith" in NI. It's changing, maybe not today but it is changing. And like it or not it won't be stopped..........

• Mortimer74 | Dec 11, 2012, 10:05 AM EST

  The relentless march towards democracy and reunification. All shaping up very nicely. A better educated workforce among the Catholic population in the north of Ireland, and a few more years for the Republic to sort its economy out, the latter being the only real impediment to eventual reunification. And of course, daily evidence of the bigotry and sectarianism that Catholics in the north have had to live with for decades. No turning back. This Englishman says, tear that wall down, Mr. Gorbachev!

• bobby | Dec 11, 2012, 10:01 AM EST

  Belfastboy, You are Plastic Brits to us here in England, You are all Irish on the Island of Ireland to us, with 40% of you in denial. The vast majority of england want N.I to leave the union, when Scotland leave after 2014 (you will follow for sure) there will be no Union or Flag. Your fighting a losing battle.

• Eschetic | Dec 11, 2012, 09:49 AM EST

  Those of us on the other "side of the Pond" who do not believe in theocracies (which the Free State for the most part isn't in any case) and, while active in our churches of any denomination, dread governments run in strict accord with the strictures of ANY denomination may be a little troubled by the reporting that a shift in religious affiliation might ipso-facto mean unification. It came as something of a surprise when in museums in Dublin to have even the most nationalist advocates saying that prior to the mishandled Easter Uprising during WWI (the timing could hardly have been worse for rational reaction), a majority of (what is now) Free State residents were NOT for independence - England has NEVER been wise in the handling of her "possessions"; what colonial power ever is? Whatever their faith, that statistic on the percentages of Northern Irish who self-identify as British or Northern Irish as opposed to simply (giving hope to unionists) Irish is not to be ignored. Times change, but one hopes not merely driven by what a bad polemicist once referred to as "the opiate of the people."

• barneyjo | Dec 11, 2012, 09:43 AM EST

  @stephendoyle - its the "pragmatic nationalist" here again to rain on your parade (well a little anyways)48% Protestant; 45% Catholic; 7% NEITHER. 40% British only National Identity; 25% Irish only National Identity; 21% NORTHERN IRISH IDENTITY!! This would seem to bear out my earlier post on this although you will no doubt argue to the contrary. I would concede that the 21% fig would probably be reduced if the census had been conducted in the wake of the recent disturbance though!!

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 09:01 AM EST

  @Belfast Boy I am not Catholic or Nationalist. I am IRISH. Born on a divided island, soon to be a United Ireland.For 55 years I have been a minority. Not it appears I am going over to a majority. Yes, I think the shoe fits me rather well. Hope my old shoe fits you, after 55 years it is rather worn in though..... MERRY Christams to you too!

• Belfast Boy | Dec 11, 2012, 08:54 AM EST

  I didnt insult Polish. I just find your twisted Catholic = Nationalist stuff embarrassing, and frankly wrong. 61% of people identified as being British or Northern Irish, 61% of people have a partitionist mindset. 61% v 25% - sorry to spoil the party, dont let it ruin your Christmas :-)

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 08:39 AM EST

  @ Belfast Boy and lastly, you insult the immigrants being Polish Catholics. I don't care if there is a massive influx of Catholic Martians for all I care. Welcome to the EU and shifting populations!

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 08:36 AM EST

  @Belfast Boy Sinister? Because it does not fall into your ideology? Get with the times, the Catholics will continue to increase. Less than 50 percent of the population thinks they are just british. It's a new day starting finally..

• Belfast Boy | Dec 11, 2012, 08:32 AM EST

  "massive increase" you say? The native population has stagnated, whilst the Catholic population sneaked along 1% because of Polish immigration and you think its "massive?" Heres a better headline "Only 25% of people in NI think of themselves as Irish" This is what experts really think is relevant to future political make up. Keep your sinister sectarian headcount out of it and face facts.

• stephendoyle | Dec 11, 2012, 08:27 AM EST

  Rome's stance on birth control will eventualy unite IRELAND. Who would have thought??