The Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland said this week it has real concerns about the future of the Church. The group, which has 800 priests as members, has been outspoken on the need for change in the church in Ireland.
'At the moment the average age of priests in Ireland is 64,' Father Brendan Hoban, one of the senior clerics in the Association, told the Irish Examiner, adding that the numbers were dwindling and would continue to. 'Without priests there is no Eucharistic, without the Eucharist there is no Church,' he added.
'We are very, very worried about it - and we need to look at priesthood - what priesthood is supposed to do and how we can have priesthood for a new and different world.'
According to the Irish Examiner, over 1,000 people attended the 'Towards an Assembly of the Irish Catholic Church' conference in Dublin yesterday. The title of the conference, say organizers, underlined their aim, after two decades of abuse scandals, to find a new way forward for the Church in Ireland.
But the Association of Catholic Priests does not enjoy strong support from Rome. In fact, many of its members have faced strong criticism by the Vatican recently for publicly expressing views that contradict Church teachings.
Nonetheless, they say there is a widespread belief that the crisis in the Irish Church is deepening, a fact underlined by the recent BBC investigation which revealed that for years, Cardinal Sean Brady was aware of the abuses perpetrated by serial pedophile Father Brendan Smyth and failed to act, and so the conference was created to discuss these issues and the future direction of the Church, the Association said.
Lay Catholic Joe Mulvanney told how in his own parish of Dundrum in Dublin, which has 4,000 people “on the rolls” just 800 attend Mass every Sunday.
“The biggest number we have has walked away,” he said. As soon as the “wonderful” Vatican II was over “and all its 16 documents . . . ” it was “taken back from us”, he told the Irish Times.
One of the conference attendees was clerical abuse survivor Marie Collins, who told the Examiner that the recent revelations about Cardinal Brady's inaction over Father Smyth in the 1970s means that he cannot remain in his current position.
'That is the pity of the whole situation,' she said. 'That that man, who is the leader of our church, cannot see that there is anything morally wrong with his inaction in 1975. Whatever about how he acted or didn't act in 1975, I think his refusal at this point to even see or understand the morality of the whole issue is why he really should not be the head of our church.'
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.Bythebay | May 21, 2012, 10:19 PM EDT
IrelandNorth, in the US, pontificating about the country he left 30 years ago and calling it wrong. Your version of and vision of Ireland is nothing but a memory. Your prejudice a self-consuming hell.
IrelandNorth | May 10, 2012, 08:02 AM EDT
Ecumenism comes of age in Ireland. Bythebay (BTB) - an Ulster Presbyterian(?) telling those pesky 'Yanks' that Ireland (another country?) will decide the fate of the Catholic Church in Ireland (excl. NI?) Now I know the Mayan doomsday scenario is accurate. (Beware 20/12/2012). Keep up the devils work, BTB! Drive that wedge between Ireland and Irish-America. You'll get your reward in hell! Apropos RC clergy - the problem is what a minority did (i.e. clerical child sexual abuse), and what a majority didn't do - i.e. stop it! Re. politics - socialism IS the paradigm democracy, (i.e. participatory over representative). "Catholic physician"(?). In cases of conflict of interest which predominates - theology or science? If a physician diagnoses/prognoses(?) us as part of "... the body of Jesus Christ", is this a case of the biology of theology? The physics of metaphysics? Despite there being a few good men (and women) in the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, the liklihood is that this 1,700 year religious reich is crumbling in a triumph of democracy over autocratic dictatorship and theological despotism. Open your minds - read the Gnostic Gospels!
barneyjo | May 09, 2012, 05:51 PM EDT
@CIARADEXY & KATIEHERK - A one time regular blogger on IC, Father Tim once posted a Blog entitled "Would the last Priest to leave Ireland please turn out the lights" Now this would have been at one time a fanciful notion, but not so now. And whilst I dont believe that it will ever get to the point that there will be literally NO priests in Ireland, it is worth remembering that Ireland has had such an experience previously. The Historians will recall the hundred or so years of the Penal Laws in Ireland during which time the Catholic Church was effectively outlawed on the Island. At any one time there may have been as few as 40-50 priests in the country and few people got the chance to attend mass regularly. The faith survived in the hearts and minds of those for whom it mattered. That is still the case today.Faith in a loving God and a guiding Holy Spirit is as strong as ever. Faith in an Institution which has shown itself to be so inept and inadequate in so many ways is less so. "Where two or three gather in my name, I will be among you" is the promise that was made by Jesus. And that is why I am not and will not be afraid, even if the last Priest DOES switch of the light on the way out!!
Stiofain | May 09, 2012, 02:05 PM EDT
loedkionline: Succinct,clear,truthful. It should be heeded.
merefalow | May 08, 2012, 08:38 PM EDT
good
markday | May 08, 2012, 08:12 PM EDT
lokieonline: What you say about the institutional Catholic Church is spot on. But it won't get shattered until the critical thinkers get together and organize. It won't happen on its own. That's why I laud the priests' association. The old boys in the funny dresses won't give up without a hell of struggle. Let the games begin!
ciaradexy | May 08, 2012, 06:43 PM EDT
katie, the church in the Us will never fail because of the number of fundamentalists there but in ireland its on its way out and good riddens!
ciaradexy | May 08, 2012, 06:40 PM EDT
Jack-this site is full of racists complaining about migrants coming to ireland. Funny thing is, those with the issues arent irish theyre american!
Curitiba | May 08, 2012, 06:21 PM EDT
Would it be better if the Catholic Church in Ireland went back to being the Celtic Church, as it was before it accepted the authority of Rome? Perhaps have more independence, but maintaining ties with the Pope, in a similar way that the Eastern Orthodox churches are independent, but recognise the overall authority of the Patriarch of Constatinople? If it did, perhaps then it could have more freedom to implement reforms, such as allowing women priests and married priests.
JackFknTwist | May 08, 2012, 05:53 PM EDT
@gravedigger ; is that a racist comment ?
gravedigger | May 08, 2012, 05:32 PM EDT
ireland verry soon wil seace to be a catholic country.with the large ammount of migrants entering here and having big families on welfare.leavs ireland on the brink of being over run by non europeans
ocaiside | May 08, 2012, 05:24 PM EDT
Not to worry. By the time we run out of priests, there won't be any Catholics either. We'll all be elsewhere, at this rate.
JackFknTwist | May 08, 2012, 05:22 PM EDT
This is the best news I've heard for a long time. The biggest number have not walked away, as Joe Mulvanney says in the article above. They were all alienated and driven away; The gays were told they were "defective and incapable of love" per Ratzinger; the women were told they could not be priests becaust Jesus didn't have any women apostles ( forget Mary Magdalen); the clergy were told they could not marry; those who disagreed were silenced (5 recently). And they wonder why there are no congregations anymore ! The Church is devoted to itself.....preserving its own power and wealth. It's that simple....and if protecting paedophiles has to be done they will do it, again and again. Let me quote Holden Caulfield: "Old Jesus would just puke."
eiriamach | May 08, 2012, 03:33 PM EDT
One photograph of the "Assembly of the Irish Catholic Church" says a great deal. It's on the Irish Times site, with today's article entitled "Meeting hears calls for dialogue at all levels in Irish church." I couldn't see anyone in the audience who looks younger than 50, with the average age, I'd say, about the same as the Irish priests'. They look like they've been waiting a long time for the changes promised by Second Vatican Council.
eiriamach | May 08, 2012, 03:10 PM EDT
Carroll09, what is the source of your claim that the number of young men in US seminaries is increasing? In any case, that number is only one side of the equation. I've quoted this before from the 1/6/12 article in the NY Times on interviews by Rev. D. Paul Sullins: "At least 25,000 Americans have left the [Catholic] priesthood since 1970, Father Sullins says. Many of them expected the church to lift the celibacy rule, but when they realized the rule was staying, they left and got married. Twenty-five thousand former priests—-in a country with fewer than 40,000 priests today. Celibate or not, all Catholics can do the math." Add to that the number removed because they're pedophiles who enter seminary to find situations where they can prey on children (unless RC officials continue to cover up for them, as looks likely). The "authentic" Catholicism you want, which should have died during the middle ages, drives priests out; the ACP's proposed reforms would open up the priesthood, make it uncomfortable for pedophiles, and bring the faithful back into the pews and the sacristy. If the ACP is "misguided," so are the majority of Irish Catholics. See the survey "Contemporary Catholic Perspectives" for that correlation. It's your view, not the ACP's, that is clearly the minority view--and the reason why the Church is failing in Ireland and the US.
DrMcHugh | May 08, 2012, 03:07 PM EDT
As a Catholic physician, I have great respect for the Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland for their courage and perseverance in addressing issues in our church, which need to be discussed by all of the faithful. The fact that the priests in the association invited both bishops and lay people to add their voices at their major meeting yesterday, shows me that these men love their church and desire to be fully inclusive and respectful of everyone's viewpoint, for the sake of creating a church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that is a true witness to the message of Jesus, in the 21st century. Eventhough Jesus was God, Jesus never wanted to be treated as a prince. Jesus was always a servant-leader. Jesus empowered both women and men when He was on earth. To live in this world is to change. There is no place for clericalism or legalism in the church. We are all parts of the body of Christ. We all have some role in giving God glory. I pray for the continued success of the Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland for the good of the church in Ireland, and hopefully for the benefit of the Catholic Church worldwide. Sincerely, Dr Rosemary Eileen McHugh, Chicago, Illinois, USA
barneyjo | May 08, 2012, 02:43 PM EDT
@katieherk - BRENDAN BOLAND WAS THE YOUNG 14YR OLD BOY, ABUSED IN 1975 BY FATHER BRENDAN SMYTH, IRELAND'S WORST PAEDOPHILE PRIEST. HE PROVIDED THE THEN FATHER (NOW CARDINAL) BRADY WITH THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF OTHER CHILDREN WHOM HE THOUGHT TO BE IN DANGER FROM SMYTH. FATHER BRADY, NOR ANY OF HIS SUPERIORS EVEN THOUGHT TO WARN THE PARENTS OF THE CHILDREN OF THAT PERIL. NOW, IN 2012 THE CARDINAL HAS SAID (LATTERLY) THAT THIS INFORMATION SHOULD HAVE BEEN ACTED ON, BUT OF COURSE THATS THIRTY SEVEN YEARS AFTER THE FACT. NOW I ASK YOU, OBJECTIVELY, WITH WHOM DOES THE MORAL IMPERATIVE LIE IN THIS INSTANCE?
CelticQueenUSA | May 08, 2012, 02:34 PM EDT
A great reformation is needed. The stale air in the Vatican is addeling their brains. Wake up and come into this centuary!
lokionline | May 08, 2012, 01:03 PM EDT
As to the matter of the increase in "vocations" in Spain, the US and elsewhere...
Have you noticed that unemployment in areas where these new vocations are coming is high? Small wonder then that conservative young folks see this as possible career/life path in a bad economy.
Whether these new vocations stand the test of time and improving economic circumstances will make an interesting study. Ohh... and @Katieherk... if you talk the way you post (all caps) it is no wonder that nobody listens to you. Nobody likes a "shouter".
katieherk | May 08, 2012, 12:50 PM EDT
WHAT DO I THINK? FOR ONE THING, IF THIS DARN IRISH CENTRAL WOULD DISCONTINUE PUTTING DOWN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH NUMEROUS ARTICLES DAILY, THE PROBLEM WOULDN'T BE SO BAD. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE NEGATIVE ARTICLES ALL THE TIME, SHAME ON YOU AND YOURS. THE CHURCH WILL NEVER FAIL, THAT WE HAVE BEEN PROMISED. LET'S TRY TO 1) WRITE POSITIVE THINGS THE CHURCH IS DOING, OR 2) TRY BALANCING IT OUT WITH NEGATIVE ARTICLES ABOUT THE PROTESTANT CHURCH, AND BELIEVE ME THERE IS PLENTY TO REPORT ON. YOU ARE CONTINUING TO BASH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EVEN THO YOU CLAIM TO BE JUST THAT. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!!!
lokionline | May 08, 2012, 12:44 PM EDT
The "yoke" that the Vatican cult has imposed on the natural goodness and spirituality of the Irish people and Catholics around the world is finally being challenged.
Let it shatter and lay on the ground for all of humanity to examine and learn from... and never repeat.
About time.
littleandloved | May 08, 2012, 12:41 PM EDT
I do believe that there should be as much room in the Church for women as there is for men. I think that we need a new ministerial position created just for women - "ministers of The Word" in ref. to Mary Magdalene being "Apostle to the Apostles". So just as the men are ministers of the Eucharist, women would be ministers of the word. I think that this would honor women in a way that would be pleasing to both God and man. Equally, the curia should be composed of both men and women - just the same as Mary was with the Apostles and prayed together waiting for the first Pentecost.
EphraimKibbey | May 08, 2012, 12:16 PM EDT
@hermitTalker - How that trowel is used is the whole problem. If it had been used to fill in the cracks with solid morter, then the structure would have been strengthened. Unfortunately it was used to glaze over the cracks superficially, hiding them without strengthening anything. This simply hid the damage until the building was in danger of collapse. I pray that the church has enough real men of God to take control and really do the master masonry of shoring up the edifice. If it is allowed to fall, the world will lose all of the good it does. That is why so many voices here, in the media, in the laity and the priesthood are calling for repairs (changes in standard operating procedures.) Hopefully the bulldozer can be avoided but if the structural damage continues to be ignored I fear it will soon be too late.
Stiofain | May 08, 2012, 11:51 AM EDT
Ireland! Free at last!
dickmac | May 08, 2012, 11:10 AM EDT
This is very sad to hear ! Along with that the politians are more Socialists than Democratic. Again prayers to the Patron Saint Patrick.
Carroll09 | May 08, 2012, 11:09 AM EDT
Firstly, I would have thought the ACP would be delighted about having fewer priests - after all, surely it will help them advance their agenda for women priests and married priests. So I would agree with IowaMike that their motives are far from pure. Secondly, Fr Hoban doesn't seem to realise that priests such as himself and other dissidents are responsible in no small part to the decline in vocations - no one wants to join a group of disgruntled old men who are stuck in 1970; nor do they want to join men who made vows before God and His people that they now seem intent on disregarding and breaking. The plain fact is that faithful, orthodox priests encourage, promote and gain vocations. Finally, in response to KilkennyCats, the number of priests worldwide is actually growing steadily. In fact, the number of Catholic seminarians in the U.S. continues to grow. So there is much hope for the Church and the priesthood in Ireland - but it will only be apparent when there is authentic Catholicism and not the misguided, non-(even anti-)Catholic ideals of the ACP.
Murph46 | May 08, 2012, 11:09 AM EDT
Time for Women priests!
hermitTalker | May 08, 2012, 10:35 AM EDT
Do those cackling Chicken Littles know any history of Ireland or the Church throughout time? it goes from glorious spring through brigth summer, quiet autumn and dead winter - and starts all over, never quite dead or down and out all over. The US seminaries are now filled in places or filling, some contemplative nuns' communities are short of space. Same will happen in Ireland once the ACP and Taoiseach and Tanaiste and the other critics quit making a capegoat out of Cardinal Brady or finding a gender and sex solution for vocations- check the Churches elsewhere that have narried and female clergy. No Magic Kingdom beyond the mountains. Then the exaggerations of the clergy abuse are seen as so few compared to the rest of the abuse the new proposed reporting law will produce, the results of which the social service workers are fearing due to shortage of staff and cash. The Church caught heck for its honesty once the extent was revealed and other professions and other Church and religious clergy will be exposed as is happening already in other places. The media of course will keep on harping on the Catholic Church as they and the Enemy's forces have always done. Genuine healthy criticism is welcome by all of us and our instututions but bulldozers are not needed when trowel and patience are required.
Bythebay | May 08, 2012, 10:26 AM EDT
Iowa is the place with Donegal Stables which has an Irish American horse!!! Ha, ha, ha.
Bythebay | May 08, 2012, 10:22 AM EDT
People like IowaMike who live in the US know nothing about the Church in Ireland and don't live in Ireland. Ireland will decide the future of the Catholic Church in Ireland, not you.
IowaMike | May 08, 2012, 10:09 AM EDT
Here is what I say to the priests in the so-called 'Association of Catholic Priests'......good-bye and good riddence. This threat of zero priests in Ireland is nothing more than a ploy! What they are trying to do is frighten Irish Catholics into supporting their demand that the Church accept their pop-culture driven initiatives....homosexual marriage, end of celibacy, married priests etc. This should be proof enough that those that belong to this association are the problem not the solution. If they are so sure of their position they are free to leave and start their own church, I'll send them a picture of Martin Luther.
KilkennyCats | May 08, 2012, 09:41 AM EDT
The number of priests (and nuns) are declining almost everywhere, not just Ireland. As for what the priests did in Ireland (and in Boston), they brought this problem on to themselves really.