53 Comments

• uppinko | Oct 08, 2012, 08:25 PM EDT

  This woman is one of the most dangerous people around at the moment. She is not a Catholic and certainly no theologian. Her pride and arrogance know no boundaries and unfortunately she is encouraged by ones no better than herself.

• jetsnoone | Oct 08, 2012, 02:02 PM EDT

  Mary McAleese is encouraging the youth of Ireland to turn away from the Church in droves.... this may or may not be her intentiion.

• GregShox | Oct 03, 2012, 06:23 PM EDT

  Paddyo -- It's probably the Protestants out to get you.

• olovely | Oct 02, 2012, 02:29 PM EDT

  Anyone called Paddyo who pats himself on the back for being the only possessor of 'the truth' is already a human caricature.

• paddyo | Oct 01, 2012, 05:51 PM EDT

  Posted last evening and they are all gone again. Why? my posts were one sided. Who is running this board Cahir

• JudyStinger | Oct 01, 2012, 04:31 PM EDT

  One can appreciate Ms. McAleese wanting to study in Rome. And too, no one should be bullied for any reason whatsoever. However, it seems to me that Ms. McAleese is trying to speak for everyone in what she feels they should believe now that she has started to study God's word. Clearly God's word can be interpreted individually and that's something between each of us and our Lord. Ms. McAleese premature statements only give another example of book sense not making common sense. I, for one, cherish my personal walk with the Lord and live by the Word of God. There is a definite difference between walking the walk and talking the talk. We will all face our God some day and will have to answer for the way in which we live our lives - be it His way or the World's way. I prefer His way and always will.

• GregShox | Oct 01, 2012, 10:11 AM EDT

  Alois, thanks for the clarification, but the question was to Paddyo. I was wondering if he thinks everything in the Bible should be obeyed, including the ban on shellfish, or if it's ok to pick and choose. A la carte, so to speak.

• paddyo | Sep 30, 2012, 09:42 PM EDT

  I had to rejoin to log in due to being told that my password or e-mail was incorrect. These were both saved,and this shouldn't have happened. I notice that all my posts and replies are gone also. Truth hurts and must be shut down.

• jacersagain | Sep 30, 2012, 08:44 PM EDT

  Sheesh! I've hugely editted my posting in response to paddyo's knockers. . Oh yes, geddit right, God does exist, despite efforts by those who have never once offered a single proof that He doesn’t exist whereas we who are privileged to believe can offer thousands of proofs. Ms. McAleese knows well of the proofs too, which is why she is a fervent respectful Roman Catholic, like paddyo and me.

• jacersagain | Sep 30, 2012, 08:32 PM EDT

  Irish Central doesn’t believe that Angels exist and so has prevented my earlier posts appearing on its site. >>> There has been much discussion in recent decades since Vatican II about the evil smoke of satan permeating the Vatican. ln the context that paddyo so truthfully portrays (Sep 29, 09.34 EDT) I think the smoke of satan might be, just might be, invading Ms. McAleese’s mind of humanistic-thinking during her present student canonical studies in Rome. I would wonder and ask why she didn’t choose Greek Orthodox or Egyptian Coptic or Messianic Jewish centres of learning to further her canonical catholic studies. There is natural right and there is natural wrong, which Ms. McAleese knows well about, as do I and people like paddyo, not just because she’s a respected lawyer and former President of Ireland but also because she is a Catholic of Nth Ireland. I think it is wrong for Ms. McAleese to use her past esteemed position as a now merely canonical student to influence a change in thinking of the world-wide Catholic Church’s position on homosexuality. IMHO, the RCC’s ages-old assessment of homosexuality has got it beautifully right. You can check that position out for yourselves on the Vatican’s website. I think it is beautifully all-encompassing for all LGBT people.

• EphraimKibbey | Sep 30, 2012, 08:13 PM EDT

  Seanmor, they are not committing suicide because they are homosexual; they are committing suicide because they are castout by their friends and loved ones. Imagine if you had red hair or were left handed and because of that twist of fate over which you had no control nor any ability to change, your friends called you horrible things and your family turned its back on you just because some institution told everyone that it was not normal. How long do you think you would last in that torment? I chose those two examples because they, like homosexuality were once thought abnormal and shunned. Latin - Sinister - on/of the left - still bears the connotation of evil. The Vikings often had red hair as evidenced in many Irish/Scandinavian lineages today. God has given us minds and the ability to learn so He/She must have expected us to do something with them. We need not be imprisoned in the prejudices of our ancestors but can become enlightened. While I do not suggest that you would treat gays like that, there are many that do. He told us to love others as ourselves and treat them as such so if we can marry whom we wish, why would we deny that to our gay neighbors? Who are we to make different rules for them?

• EphraimKibbey | Sep 30, 2012, 07:48 PM EDT

  Rebelforce, I remember that divorce WAS the RCC cause-celeb not that many decades ago. While they seem to have given up their public attacks on it, it is still not fully accepted even if one partner is killing the other. (unless the couple can't have children then its OK)

• aloistmartin | Sep 30, 2012, 06:43 PM EDT

  GregShox@ Leviticus is only half the story. The Taboo against Pork has a lot to do with Gluttony and Golden Calves. The Taboo against Shellfish may have some thing to do with Trading with Gentiles. And even our own Canon takes on a different meaning if one is a Rich Man or a Politician ... haec-dona, heac-muner, haec-sancta sacrificia illibata in primis, quae tibi offerimus pro Ecclesia tua sacta catholica:

• Happyhippo | Sep 30, 2012, 09:22 AM EDT

  A timely reminder to all who profess Christian values,Christ while on this earth never mixed with the ruling class or people who at the time were considered holy men by the people,his focus always was the outcasts prisoners lepers of society,maybe we should take note and not be so quick to pass judgement on others while professing christian beliefs.

• eiriamach | Sep 30, 2012, 08:45 AM EDT

  Bible-quoting hypocrites, this is for you~~ the most important and fundamental "moral rule" God wants you to understand from the bible is that it is NOT a set of inherited moral judgments for YOU to apply to anyone except yourself alone in the context of your own life. As in Hebrews 13:4: "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." The meaning is clear: leave the judgment of sexual morality to God. It is not yours to make, it is not yours to legislate, and it is surely not yours to use to oppress other people. It is ludicrous to assume that the Creator would pass along a holy book for any human being to use to castigate and oppress others. Stop abusing the bible! Take responsibility for your own bias and stop attributing it to God.

• GregShox | Sep 30, 2012, 08:02 AM EDT

  Earth to Bogsidebunny: You can't resign. They don't accept it.

• bogsidebunny | Sep 30, 2012, 07:24 AM EDT

  POPE BENEDICT TO MARY: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RULES-RESIGN FROM THE CLUB!

• GregShox | Sep 30, 2012, 06:22 AM EDT

  Paddyo -- Mary Mc Aleese spoke as a devout Catholic commenting on her own church. I imagine she finds the attitude of Islam equally objectionable, but as a non-Muslim, her comments would not carry the same weight.

• alisaann | Sep 30, 2012, 04:54 AM EDT

  GOOD for her.....she's right....this is 1 VERY SMART LADY....she is NOT closed-minded about the issue of "gays", or closing her eyes to the SEXUAL ABUSE in the CATHOLIC church.....the POPE should MORE concerned with cleaning out the DIRT in his church, then CONSENTING ADULTS being IN LOVE with and wanting to MARRY their own gender......all he's EVER done, was MOVE the BAD priests around the world....NEVER FILED CHARGES WITH THE "LAW", the way he should have.....LOVE IS LOVE....AND GOD MADE EVERYONE...what child rapist do, is NOT about LOVE....it's about POWER....and ABUSING THE TRUST that people have in them. alisa

• helmet365 | Sep 29, 2012, 11:54 PM EDT

  Paddo has signed off to go to bed. I wonder what he dreams of?

• Eschetic | Sep 29, 2012, 11:53 PM EDT

  The churches thinking on so MANY things has changed over the years - not always for the better (witness their abandoning "the quickening" as "the beginning of life" JUST when science confirms it!) - but for the most part it tries to keep up with the culture it serves. We no longer condemn women for speaking in church or wearing red dresses and relegate those lines in the Bible which say we should to the cultural artifacts they are. The current misinterpretation of a few lines in Leviticus to persecute all too many of our brothers and sisters MUST eventually change as well if the church is to do its job uniting God and his (in the broadest sense) people. Those bigots who cling to hate rather than love will not be regarded as "normal" before the throne of the lamb, but it may take a miracle to get them to realize that.

• helmet365 | Sep 29, 2012, 11:11 PM EDT

  Paddyo, It is part of humanity. In Melbourne Australia police say three Catholic priests were responsible for the deaths of 33 young men who they abused over a number of years, The priests were men of God. You wonder why some posters are a little negative about your Church.

• GregShox | Sep 29, 2012, 10:21 PM EDT

  I don't know what age Paddyo is, but it would be good if he answered the question.

• helmet365 | Sep 29, 2012, 10:11 PM EDT

  Paddyo is one of the older Catholics I referred to before. Yes Paddy it is part of our humanity. In most jail populations throughout the world they are doing more than that and they are all all male with big tats on their arms. Why do you think they have condoms on issue? No they are not to be blown up for birthday parties.

• GregShox | Sep 29, 2012, 09:58 PM EDT

  Paddyo -- You ok with straights having anal and oral sex then?

• helmet365 | Sep 29, 2012, 09:58 PM EDT

  As humans we search for the truth hoping to find an almighty, that is why there so many religions and so many Gods each believing theirs is the true one. If horses had a God it would be a horse so we think it's a man. There is no such thing as sin.As humans we are flawed and incomplete. Homosexuality is to be human,maybe the third sex. What is beyond life? I don't know but whatever it is,I accept.

• GregShox | Sep 29, 2012, 09:44 PM EDT

  Hey Paddyo -- You think it's only gays who do that? You've led a sheltered life, kid.

• SingleDonald | Sep 29, 2012, 09:44 PM EDT

  PiperMac52, I can't accept your apparent literal interptetation of Biblical passages. There comes a time in the human evolution that men, women, and even growing kids trust their own sense of right and wrong. The fact that Jesus supposedly proclaimed in Matthew 5:28 that it is wrong for men to have lusty heterosexual feelings for women can hardly be taken literally. No rational man or woman believes this, in the mpdern world! Why should we have to say, "I'm sorry, Lord" when we believe we have not committed any transgression, let alone one which can "send us to hell"! Asking for "forgiveness", over this sort of thing, can only lead to guilt, over human sexuality! Men who like women, and women who like man, will rightfully engage in these thoughts; they are not "impure", or "dirty"! If the Lord really believes this, then he (note the lower case pronoun) is an ego maniac control freak! Concerning homosexuals, they were born that way. Therefore, I can't condemn them for having the same fantasies towards members of their own gender. So long as they respect the fact that I am heterosexual, I should not condemn them, nor should you.

• rpbrown | Sep 29, 2012, 07:56 PM EDT

  And yes btw the bible has been re-written MANY times to suit the needs of whoever was in charge. Some of the most damage was done to it in AD 300 when only a few gospels were chosen and others that were more complex in teaching and scope ignored. And still, it's just a book written by humans. It says all sorts of ridiculous things like that eating shellfish or touching pigskin is punishable by death. Or that if woman's husband dies and she has not borne him a son, she must have sex with his brother until she does. THAT'S INSANE. If you crazy people want to believe a book that says all that crap go ahead. It has some inspiring stuff in it, but you people take it so far that you use it to put other people down and as history shows, when you have the chance YOU KILL PEOPLE BASED ON WHAT YOUR RELIGIOUS BOOK SAYS (the Inquisition for example). But you're time is up. NO ONE NEEDS FAITH IN GOD, FOR THEY ALREADY ARE GOD. Leave ME and other gay people alone. It's not a sin or whatever nonsense you make up. WITHIN US ALL, WHEN WE STOP TELLING THE STORIES OF WHO WE ARE, IS GOD IN PERFECT STILL SILENT AWARENESS. TAKE YOUR RELIGIOUS BOOKS AND THROW THEM IN THE TRASH WHERE THE BIG EGO'S OF THE MEN WHO WROTE THEM BELONG.

• rpbrown | Sep 29, 2012, 07:43 PM EDT

  I'm thankful someone like Ms. McAleese is speaking up. I wish she went further. The Catholic church is a sham and always has been. Anyone who thinks a book is the word of God is a nutjob and has thrown their reason into the trash can. God is an experience beyond ANY human effort to contain it, and yet God is within all those things. You don't need a man holding a book that tells men they can sell their children into slavery or that homosexuality is right or wrong (it says both btw) to be one with God. You already are. It's that simple. How could their be a God if it was limited only to what is considered "good" anyway? God is in everything. Humans just like to use some limited perception of God to put other people down or two abate their fear of death. That said, pointing out how destructive the church has always been is not "bashing'. It's telling the truth.

• plstg67 | Sep 29, 2012, 06:54 PM EDT

  If the church's standing on the gay community didn't change in the last century.What makes you think it will in this one.

• KatieMurphy | Sep 29, 2012, 06:44 PM EDT

  all you have to do is google - Pope UNexcommunicates bishop williamson to see how far off the rails the church under Benedicts leadership has gone.... Williamson is a holocaust denier / minimizer................. As for the church, well its getting its due. On EWTN alst year the church admitted that catholics in France - only about 13% attend on any regular basis, spain - 15 %, I have websites that say the true number is more like 5% ............... And we should all know how the church put its pocketbook and reputation ahead of the childen victims of its abnormal/abysmal policy of sex starved priests............Another poster hit the nail on the head - only the old folks have much to do with the catholic church any more. Thanks Heimet365..........te h big problem is how many more gay children will the church send to the cemetery while it talks about protecting life.

• helmet365 | Sep 29, 2012, 06:31 PM EDT

  You can be sure most homophobe posters here are older Catholics just following the sheep.They have to move on for the next generation who are not influenced by the Church.This won't be an issue in a few years. Keep up the good work Mary.

• cynicus | Sep 29, 2012, 06:10 PM EDT

  It is plain that the R.C. church is being destroyed by evil from within. Those who defend it in this unchristian manner are demolishing it! The devil's work!

• PiperMac52 | Sep 29, 2012, 05:10 PM EDT

  Mrs. McAleese can join the ranks of liberal dissenting Catholics. She is rebuking the teachings of Christ and his Apostles as it has been understood for 4000 years dating to the old testament and within every traditional religion. She has embraced the modern culture and jettisoned her faith as many have throughout history. Cherry picking those teachings that fit you own base nature and disposing of those that don't. That is it in a nut shell, plain and simple. Because some well known personality confirms our base nature to eschew God's/natural law doesn't give their opinion any more credence.

• eiriamach | Sep 29, 2012, 04:31 PM EDT

  We don't need so much 'Humility,' Brolaur, that we fail to see the harm done by your Church's condemnations. Nor enough 'Humility' to believe that a Church that incites hatred and cruelty is "guided by The Holy Spirit." Pardon me for having only a limited human understanding; I'm incapable of imagining the Holy Spirit stirring up such evil. It's not 'Humility' you're calling for but complicity.

• GregShox | Sep 29, 2012, 03:58 PM EDT

  Seanmor -- Where do the Church Fathers stand with regard to the Holy Bible's ban on eating shellfish?

• eiriamach | Sep 29, 2012, 03:33 PM EDT

  blackstone, how do your "gay friends" react to your judgment on their "deviant sexual behavior"? And are your gay friends all teenagers? And have you bothered checking any statistics, or do you see only what you want to see? NY Times editorial 9/21/11: "One study published in the journal Pediatrics in May, which looked at nearly 32,000 teenagers in 34 counties across Oregon, found that gay and bisexual teenagers were significantly more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers. The risk of an attempt was 20 percent greater among gay teenagers who lacked supportive social surroundings, like schools with gay-straight alliance groups or school policies that specifically protected gay, lesbian and bisexual students." Your mocking dismissal of McAleese's concern, with your insult and pseudo-diagnosis of "deviant sexual behavior" tossed in, communicates nothing but ugly intolerance.

• Brolaur | Sep 29, 2012, 03:01 PM EDT

  I believe the Catholic Church is guided by The Holy Spirit! It doesn't matter then, does it,who thinks what or why or anything else for that matter. We all need a little bit of Humility.

• eiriamach | Sep 29, 2012, 01:54 PM EDT

  In the USA, the Catholic bishops have powerful allies in their anti-gay campaign. Evangelicals blame gays for every misfortune from economic collapse to birds falling from the skies over Arkansas: "Steve Strang, the influential Pentecostal publisher of Charisma magazine, wrote ... that America is under threat from a 'radical homosexual agenda.'" Cindy Jacobs of Generals International ministry "blamed a mysterious Arkansas bird-kill last year on Obama's repeal of the policy known as 'don't ask, don't tell,' enabling gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military." These "Christians" have organized a Philadelphia gathering this weekend, called "America for Jesus 2012," intended to save us all from God's alleged punishments for our progress in LGBT civil rights (Huff Post). Amidst all the histrionic "praying" for attention, however, the Pew Research Center released poll results showing Catholic support for President Obama at 54% to Romney's 42 percent. Romney's support from evangelicals (aka, the Christians meeting in Phily) stands at 74 percent (Huff Post 9/27). While Mary McAleese is right to worry about toxic messages reaching teens in Catholic schools, no child or adult in America is beyond reach, and the message for supporters of equality is that we're bringing "moral depravity" to America: a hate-filled message that harbors only more suicides, hate speech and hate crimes.

• Seanmor | Sep 29, 2012, 01:46 PM EDT

  Is is deplorable that so many young people are driven to suicide because of their homosexuality, but the Church Fathers are hardly the ones to blame for this tragedy. Most, if not all, Catholic prelates have ststed that the R.C. Church does NOT condemn anyone for his/her sexual orientation, but these same prelates strictly follow the Holy Bible when it comes to homosexual activity, as they do with respect to the what the Bible's teachings teachings on adultry and fornication.

• aloistmartin | Sep 29, 2012, 01:29 PM EDT

  God Bless Our Humble Home

• aloistmartin | Sep 29, 2012, 01:29 PM EDT

  She`s Come Undone

• Nicomax | Sep 29, 2012, 01:15 PM EDT

  The Vatican remains incapable of seizing an opportunity to pull out of its downward spiral, even when notable Catholics are trying to help them. The recent noise about the possibility of some ancient writings hinting that Jesus may have been married and there were women Apostles, was instantly dismissed. They should have taken the opportunity and said maybe, just maybe, this is all true and we no longer need to prevent married people or women from becoming priests. This would be the PR breakthrough they need, but no, they stuck to their power-retention position once again.

• Nicoletta | Sep 29, 2012, 01:14 PM EDT

  Like it or lump it, the Catholic Church's attitude to homosexuality is the correct attitude. It would be impossible for the Church to endorse same-sex activity, because it is sinful (like all sex outside of marriage). Love the sinner, hate the sin.

• haasny007 | Sep 29, 2012, 12:21 PM EDT

  The Catholic Church is self-destructing with its first millenium agenda and its unwillingness to evolve into the third millenium.

• bunkerisland | Sep 29, 2012, 12:19 PM EDT

  We appreciate the candid comments of Mary McAleese!

• Rebelforce | Sep 29, 2012, 11:19 AM EDT

  You might think that because Jesus said "Blessed are the Peacemakers" and spoke very plainly in opposition to Divorce the US Catholic bishops would take every opportunity to denounce War and those who promote it and would be calling for strict laws banning married couples in the US from divorce. But no, the American RC Church has been conspicuously silent about the immoral and illegal US invasions of Arab and Muslim countries that have ended up killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and rarely do we hear them publicly criticize divorced people. Instead, the US bishops have taken the safe and frankly, cowardly route by openly targeting a group of people who are already the object of much ridicule and scorn in society because of their sexual orientation. The ironic part ofcourse is that Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality, and if truth be told the Catholic priesthood (as is obvious) is filled with men who the Church officially describes as "disordered" because of their homosexual orientation.

• eiriamach | Sep 29, 2012, 10:23 AM EDT

  Can religious anti-LGBT sentiment be as oppressive in Ireland as it has been in the US? Just in the past week, the RC Archbishop of Seattle, J. Peter Sartain, commented, “human society would be harmed beyond repair” if his state's marriage equality law stands. Also this week, as reported in the LA Times, Salvatore Cordileone, Archbishop-elect of San Francisco, ordered gay men and lesbians not to partake of Holy Communion. Tomorrow, the RC Archdiocese of Newark, NJ will distribute a "pastoral reflection" by AB John J. Myers, ordering not only sexually active gay Catholics but any Catholic who supports same-sex marriage not receive the Eucharist. Marriage equality, he believes, would "seriously undermine religious freedom," and he encourages homosexuals to marry partners of the opposite sex! Myers issued a 16-page attack against marriage equality in which he compares gay marriage to incest and cites Mark Regnerus' quack study that denigrates non-biological parenting. The New Civil Rights Movement points out that the US Catholic Church is exempted under federal law from $71 Billion in annual taxes despite its aggressive political lobbying on this issue. Comments on the blogs are focusing, with understandable anger, on this tax exemption, as well as on the psychological and social harm done by this fanatical campaign against LGBT rights.

• Tilliewillow | Sep 29, 2012, 09:57 AM EDT

  Holy and Loving God, May all realize this -- soon. Amen.

• pilib04 | Sep 29, 2012, 09:53 AM EDT

  olovely, my sentiments. Actually, I would probably been a little harsh in my criticism of the Church/Vatican. You kept it on a positive note and specifically about the former Uachtaran na hEireann. Go raibh maith agat.

• hermitTalker | Sep 29, 2012, 09:51 AM EDT

  She did not slam the Catholic Church, she slammed the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, the Natural Law that is upheld by the world's major faith groups. There is absolutely no excuse for slamming the person who is homosexual, female or male (homos here means same, Greek; not homo as man, Latin) The person is a sacred creation, made in God's image and worthy of respect. There are some awful bigoted teachers but the Catholic Church says that the same-gender genital activity is dis-ordered, a moral evil, while the person is a human being. Same teaching applies to sex outside marriage and other deviant ways of using this precious sacred gift given by the Creator. Mary's assessment is not on target- her criticism is directed way wider than at the Catholic Church. Compassion for AIDS victims in all nations and among all ages marks the Catholic Church's activity and Her hospitals and health care facilities do not discriminate.

• olovely | Sep 29, 2012, 09:36 AM EDT

  McAleese's views represent compassion and common sense, which is she will challenge people who haven't been in the business of either. It seems she's doing great work after her presidency too. Fair play to her.