145 Comments

• Realist | Dec 01, 2012, 12:18 PM EST

  seamus60: Still desperately trying to justify David Black's murder I see. Shame.

• seanomelb | Nov 13, 2012, 05:42 PM EST

  Dano ignores the central tenet of my post because he has no answers only puerile repetitious nonsense

• seamus60 | Nov 13, 2012, 09:36 AM EST

  Dano. The statement clearly states the word death.

• seamus60 | Nov 13, 2012, 09:33 AM EST

  Tony Taylor a Republican prisoner on remand (interned) in a British prison has had his wrist broken and recieved other injuries from a prison riot squad as they were escourting him to Court.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 12, 2012, 06:47 PM EST

  ...claimed responsibility for Mr. Black's death? Err, so they murdered him?...that's OK then?

• seanomelb | Nov 12, 2012, 05:00 PM EST

  According to this mornings news a republican group has claimed responsibility for Mr. Black's death, in retaliation for the torture of Republican prisoners in jail. But I suppose that British torture is OK in your British mind.

• seamus60 | Nov 12, 2012, 09:22 AM EST

  Realist. Refusing to condemn and glorifying something are a long way apart. As for calling British judges or the judicery out on anything, get a grip. When we can`t get any of the security forces on hundreds of murders, you would need to start living up to your user name.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 12, 2012, 03:17 AM EST

  Seano - You will decide on why he died??? Most people have a fair idea why...

• seanomelb | Nov 11, 2012, 06:04 PM EST

  It's the reason why he was killed I'd like to know and then I will make a decision on why he tragically died.

• Realist | Nov 11, 2012, 05:50 AM EST

  seano: I'm glad you disagree with "summary justice". That is what David Black received. Do you condemn this? Yes or no?

• Realist | Nov 11, 2012, 05:48 AM EST

  curtisjohnson: Lol...."a published court opinion" now? It was "a published court case" concerning, and I quote, "a rumour" in your reply before that. You cannot expect people to just take your word for this....you must learn to provide sources and evidence. Come along now, for the second time of asking, would you please provide details: names, dates, verdict? Also....do you condemn this murder (the murder of David Black)....yes or no? When will we have some straight answers?

• seanomelb | Nov 11, 2012, 02:42 AM EST

  Summary justice I suppose Curtis

• curtisjohnson | Nov 11, 2012, 12:44 AM EST

  A published Court opinion, you imbecile. Looke it up, troll. I love how Realist gives orders and commands information - next he's going to get out the pitch and cap and administer some british due process of law.

• Realist | Nov 10, 2012, 07:08 PM EST

  curtisjohnson: "a published case"? What "published case"? Please provide details: names, dates, verdict? Also....do you condemn this murder....yes or no?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 10, 2012, 06:55 PM EST

  It was a published case, Realist. Incidentally, I do condemn the killing of any innocent non-combatant. In contrast, the british terror state has made the torture and murder of non-combatants a core tenant of its ethos although effectively obscuring its crimes with grotesque displays of self congratulatory righteousness.

• Realist | Nov 10, 2012, 03:57 PM EST

  seamus60: I have made no claims about expression or non expression of anything....these are the words of Mr Hewson regarding another pointless act of terrorist violence which sees its 25th anniversary this week. I have no doubt that you "couldn't give a fiddler's elbow for U2" or, indeed, David Black and his grieving family....that is clear.

• Realist | Nov 10, 2012, 03:50 PM EST

  seamus60: My friend, I have simply asked you to substantiate your claims, regarding Mr Justice Treacy, with evidence. You seem either unwilling or unable to do this. Will you back up your statements, as I have, or will you continue to obfuscate?

• seamus60 | Nov 10, 2012, 12:49 PM EST

  Realist, I couldn`t give a fiddlers elbow for U2 of any of its overated members. Again who on this thread has expressed glory at officer Blacks death ?

• seamus60 | Nov 10, 2012, 12:45 PM EST

  Realist. I`ve better things to do with my time than get you accept the REALITY as with Marian Price. It has been one spectacle after another since her arrest, with too many for me to go into yet again. It has turned into a running soap between the legal system and the state. Treacy being the latest to pass the too hot to hold potatoe. Even schoolboys have got the jist. Why can`t you ?

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 10, 2012, 06:31 AM EST

  Seamus - They had a say in amending the Constitution and the GFA...

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 04:54 PM EST

  curtisjohnson: "The most egregious strip searches would occur when a gang of british male guards would strip and sexually assault female indigenous prisoners. This occurred regularly at one time although it's current usage is uncertain." Would you please provide a primary source for or corroborating evidence to substantiate that claim?

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 04:50 PM EST

  "In its evidence, the Prison Service stated that during a full body search the prisoner is at no time required to be completely naked, nor is there any physical contact between staff and prisoner during the search. The process is normally over in minutes. The Prison Service also stated that the policy and procedure is analogous to that applied throughout the United Kingdom and the search methodology applied by the NI Prison Service is less intrusive than that applied in England and Wales and the Republic of Ireland."

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 04:49 PM EST

  curtisjohnson: I refer you to my previous comment....In response to a challenge to the policy and practices of the NI Prison Service brought by prisoner Brendan Conway, "Mr Justice Treacy, sitting on Thursday 5th May 2011 in the High Court, ruled that the routine full body searching of prisoners on each occasion when they enter or leave the prison is lawful. He also found that the policy of forcible full body searching of non-compliant prisoners is lawful and not incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)."

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 04:45 PM EST

  seamus60: Your comments about Seamus Treacy are schoolboy speculation....trying to make inconvenient facts fit some Mickey Mouse narrative. Yet again, you cannot substantiate this with any sort of hard evidence. By the way, the intervention of the Secretary of State with regard to Marian Price was perfectly legal when he revoked her release from prison on licence. He (Owen Paterson) said the decision was made because the threat posed by Price had "significantly increased". If he, based on the intelligence he receives from the various security agencies, believes this to be true, then it is his duty to act....and he did.

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 04:26 PM EST

  seamus60: Those are the words of Paul Hewson of the band U2. He made that speech shortly after the Provisional IRA's Enniskillen Remembrance Day Massacre in November 1987....25 years ago this week. I thought it was apposite and focused attention on the evil futility of the murder and murderers of David Black....those you refuse to condemn.

• seamus60 | Nov 09, 2012, 12:41 PM EST

  What Glory has anyone expressed here ?

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 10:08 AM EST

  "What's the glory... in taking a man from his bed, and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a remembrance day parade of old-age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day? Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying.... or crippled for life... or dead... under the rubble... of a revolution... that the majority of the people in my country don't want."

• Realist | Nov 09, 2012, 09:58 AM EST

  IrelandNorth: You don't like what you read here, have no credible retort to it, and this upsets you....I understand. Your solution seems to be violence and murder and you condone those like David Black's murderers who carry this out. Your rhetoric is worn out and discredited, and the arguments that it stems from were lost years ago. What do you have to offer? Murdering people like Ronan Kerr, Stephen Carrol, and David Black because you did not get what you want? Is that it? Well, the people, North and South of the border do not want that....they have rejected it....and quite right too.

• IrelandNorth | Nov 09, 2012, 07:20 AM EST

  I note some propagandists below equate republicanism with criminality? Both the Irish Government proper and Northern Ireland Assembly grant-aided the Orange Order to the tune of €0.5m each, topped up by €3m from European Federal Government on the mainland. (A sovereignty transfer from London to Dublin and Belfast via Brussels and Berlin, doing financially what they intend doing politically). The "Dublin Government" doesn't just rule the Irish capitol city but the 26 counties also. The territorial claim in Articles 2 & 3 of Búnreacht na h'Éireann/Constitution of Ireland, 1937 (as amended) substituted them by reference to the "Island of Ireland" preserving national integrity while moving from concepts of nations as people rather than territory. To what extent is it possible to be democratic in a neo-provincial statlet or an imposed monarchy which were/are antithetical to it? Condemnation is ego-centric and hasn't advanced peace. To understand all is to forgive all! A minister of religion who refers to "... murdering thugs and bloodthirsty criminals" (however understandable in highly emotive circustances) is hardly using the language of Christ. More that of a burning bush. 26 county Criminal Justice System put at disposal of Police Service of Northern Ireland. A united Ireland with greater 26 joining lesser 6? Senior judicial figures are not levitating buddah's. They officially pronounce on laws made by the dead for the living on the common law of an imperial power. Just legalistic dogma not pithy metaphysical insights. QC taking oath the constitutionality of which they subsequently challenge? "Terrorism" isn't/wan't confinded to republican paramilitaries. Why were the B-Specials/RUC and UDR disbanded by British Government?

• seamus60 | Nov 09, 2012, 06:08 AM EST

  Dano, when have all the people of Ireland had a say on changing the Proclamation ?. Something Adams and Co had responsability for and shunned it to their own and the brits gain.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 09, 2012, 04:47 AM EST

  Curtis – Chanting your pointless mantra fixes NOTHING? Thankfully the good people of Ireland have had the last word on this one…by a huge majority the people have decided that this bunch of thugs shall not act in the name of Ireland…is it not high time you showed proper respect for the wishes of the people?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 08, 2012, 09:51 PM EST

  The most egregious strip searches would occur when a gang of british male guards would strip and sexually assault female indigenous prisoners. This occurred regularly at one time although it's current usage is uncertain. There is even a published Court case wherein the practice was upheld repeatedly because of a rumour that one of the prisoner had some unidentified object which, of course, was never found in the course of these brutal assault by these sicko prison guards. Can anyone site documentation of any weapons that have ever been found on indigenous prisoners as a result of these sick and dehumanizing searches?

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 09:45 PM EST

  Dano. So you don`t. Where is bin ladin and the justice he deserved under your good rule book. How many others have dissappeared into interrogation black holes controlled by black ops.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 08, 2012, 09:40 PM EST

  " When you cut away all the crap, the plain and simple truth is that the british terror state has summarily executed countless non-combatants (women and children in particular) all over the world without even so much as a show trial - it's integral to their moral ethos and british "manhood." The question is do you support british nation rape disguised as "democracy" or not?" There, fixed that for you Dano.

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 08:13 PM EST

  Realist. you are very naieve to think in war it is the man and not the uniform as the primary target.You will know nothing of the man but a lot of his uniform and what it represents.

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 08:07 PM EST

  Realist. Treacy as i had already pointed out on another thread was obviously becoming fearfull of being the last one to have his hands on the wobbly ball that was being used and abused to further irode Marians chances of what you would deem as good justice. He did go very quiet on the matter as soon as the SOS stepped in. There was no more of " I can find no reason to detain her " crap, Astounding proof of political interferance that remains as strong as ever within policing and the law.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 08, 2012, 07:33 PM EST

  When you cut away all the crap, the plain and simple question is..do you support summary execution, or not? I don't....

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 07:04 PM EST

  seamus60: "Folks the uniform was the target, not the unfortunate man wearing it." Yes, the same way it was the guns that murdered David Black and not the poor tortured souls that pulled the triggers. You are part of the past my friend....the same way murders like this should be.

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 06:56 PM EST

  seamus60: "Well they thought it worth while shooting a screw or they wouldn`t have."? Two former Republican terrorist prisoners joined the Nolan radio show in Northern Ireland earlier this week to condemn David Black's murder and to express their appreciation for his kindness to them whilst they were serving their sentences. One even broke down in tears live on air. Whether you have the backbone to admit it or not, you clearly condone this murder and have no compassion or respect for the victim. Your last comment was in particularly poor taste. I ask once again....what is wrong with you?

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 06:47 PM EST

  Well they thought it worth while shooting a screw or they wouldn`t have.

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 06:46 PM EST

  seamus60/mairead: "No mention of the judge who muttered "I release Marian Price and believe her case should be referred back to the paroll board for review of their last decision to keep her in prison"."? Lol....as a matter of fact, it was the same judge, one Mr Justice Seamus Treacy QC. I doubt he would describe himself as a "political judge" by the way. In fact in 1998 Treacy was one of two barristers who successfully challenged the then mandatory oath of allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen for QCs. Thus, in summary, he upheld Marian Price's claim but denied Brendan Conway's challenge. One anti-peace process Republican terrorist got the thumbs up whilst the other anti-peace process Republican terrorist got the thumbs down. Any thoughts on this? Or don't you do thoughts?

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 08, 2012, 06:42 PM EST

  Seamus - So they are self-appointed 'volunteers'...maybe they could volunteer for something worthwhile instead?

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 06:01 PM EST

  Enniskillen, the first bomb to kill civillians on mass by design.

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 05:54 PM EST

  Dano. "who asks these people". don`t be stupid a volunteer army is made up of VOLUNTEERS.

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 05:41 PM EST

  Folks the uniform was the target, not the unfortunate man wearing it.

• seamus60 | Nov 08, 2012, 05:36 PM EST

  Ironic that people like Realist endorse the mutterings of these political judges, when it suits them. No mention of the judge who muttered "I release Marian Price and believe her case should be referred back to the paroll board for review of their last decision to keep her in prison".

• maireadinmelb | Nov 08, 2012, 04:28 PM EST

  One british judge says it is lawful - Diplock thought a trial with no jury was fair! Not sure I would believe a british judge on these issues! You can stop contraband in a prison by not having contact visits much less invasive than strip searches! But no cannot consider another option! Do non republican prisoners get treated the same way??

• barneyjo | Nov 08, 2012, 04:09 PM EST

  REMEMBER ENNISKILLEN!!!! - 25 years ago today!!

• irismonkey48 | Nov 08, 2012, 03:06 PM EST

  How do they know it was the IRA? This man could have had enemies on the outside too. Or maybe his wife hired someone for his insurance money? People should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It is just too convenient to blame it on one group.

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 08:00 AM EST

  seano/curtis/mairead: Now, let's see if any of you have the guts to come out of the closet on this....Do you or do you not condemn the murder of this prison officer? I will take anything other than a "yes" (including no response) to be a "no".

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 07:47 AM EST

  On 13th June 2011, Stormont Justice Minister David Ford said the current threat to prison officers from Óglaigh na hÉireann means security must be stepped up, "The agreement (with prisoners) did cover a reduction in full body searching within the prison and that has been implemented, but the rules across the UK are absolutely the same. There has to be a full body search on entering and leaving the prison," he said. "There are still threats being made against prison officers on some dissident republican websites and that's clearly a breach of that agreement." "One of the prisoners took a judicial review against the prison service and the judge has basically said that rule is a valid rule to protect the welfare and safety of those in prisons, whether prisoners or prison officers."

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 07:40 AM EST

  "The judge also concluded that the policy of forcible full body searching of non-compliant prisoners is not incompatible with the ECHR. He referred to the judgment of Lord Bingham in Daly [2001] 2 WLR 1622 in which he said: “It must be recognised that the prison population includes a core of dangerous, disruptive and manipulative prisoners, hostile to authority and ready to exploit for their own advantage any concession granted to them. Any search policy must accommodate this inescapable fact …”."

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 07:31 AM EST

  "In its evidence, the Prison Service stated that during a full body search the prisoner is at no time required to be completely naked, nor is there any physical contact between staff and prisoner during the search. The process is normally over in minutes. The Prison Service also stated that the policy and procedure is analogous to that applied throughout the United Kingdom and the search methodology applied by the NI Prison Service is less intrusive than that applied in England and Wales and the Republic of Ireland."

• Realist | Nov 08, 2012, 07:28 AM EST

  In response to a challenge to the policy and practices of the NI Prison Service brought by prisoner Brendan Conway, "Mr Justice Treacy, sitting on Thursday 5th May 2011 in the High Court, ruled that the routine full body searching of prisoners on each occasion when they enter or leave the prison is lawful. He also found that the policy of forcible full body searching of non-compliant prisoners is lawful and not incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)."

• maireadinmelb | Nov 08, 2012, 05:05 AM EST

  Are you aware realist as to the current practices within Maghberry prison, strip searches and the dehumanisation of prisoners! Any guard who watches it or acts as part of such abuse of human rights cannot disassociate themselves. You are in it or you get out! It was no defense at nuremburg to claim following orders it is no defense here! You may not prove the deceased was committing the abuse but by failing to prevent it he was condoning it!

• curtisjohnson | Nov 07, 2012, 09:49 PM EST

  rebuttable presumption, that is.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 07, 2012, 08:57 PM EST

  As far as I'm concerned, a rebuttal presumption of wrongoing should always rest with the british terror state and its trolls given the history of monstrous atrocities against non-combatants.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 07, 2012, 08:53 PM EST

  I was speculating, obviously. However, what I described is consistent with the treatment of indigenous populations by the british terror state for centuries. " as in all civilized parliamentary democracies, the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused" - except when the british terror state decides otherwise then you are held without cause and tortured.

• Realist | Nov 07, 2012, 06:25 PM EST

  seano: You're being a silly boy again....this is not the headmaster's office....as in all civilized parliamentary democracies, the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. Now what part of that lot did you not understand?

• seanomelb | Nov 07, 2012, 06:04 PM EST

  Realist do you have evidence to the contrary?? you push your maudlin pro British sugar coated bullsh@t and convince yourself you're correct.

• Realist | Nov 07, 2012, 05:36 PM EST

  curtisjohnson: You claimed on this very thread, and I quote, "This guy was probably an integral part of the torture and death chambers run by the terror state in the occupied 6." If, as you admit below, you do not "have evidence of anything" then you should not make statements like this. Do you understand?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 07, 2012, 04:30 PM EST

  Then you're also deadly stupid. For the other brit trolls, I have not justified or claimed I have evidence of anything.

• leahkinsella | Nov 07, 2012, 04:10 PM EST

  Curtisjohnson: I'm always deadly serious.

• Fitzyboy | Nov 07, 2012, 09:50 AM EST

  Selfish people, who think of no one but themselves.

• IrelandNorth | Nov 07, 2012, 08:36 AM EST

  One can empathise with the strong sentiments expressed by An Céad Aire an Tuascírt Éireann - Péadar Mhic Robín. Fortunately, I believe the political processes on the British and Irish Isles are being directed by the hidden hand of progressives. Understanding is better than condemnation. The real danger is between respective ideological idealists and political pragmatists on both sides.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 07, 2012, 04:54 AM EST

  Curtis - Your attempt to justify the unjustifiable looks increasingly desperate...simplistic 'Butterfly Effect' cant won't wash in the real world...it's high time you paid it a visit.

• Realist | Nov 07, 2012, 02:45 AM EST

  curtisjohnson: Lol....if you could let go of that chip on your shoulder for a minute and return to the actual subject of this thread....you were asked a question regarding this murdered prison officer....Do you have evidence of "abuse as part of his enumerated job duties"?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 06, 2012, 08:38 PM EST

  The hypocritical and moralistic reference to "democracy" by british supremacists is always amusing. The occupied statelet was a maufactured and artificial entity designed to produce a unionist majority and thereafter severely gerrymandered. It was a supremacist ochlachracy if anything. Interesting that these sactimonious references to "democracy" are completely absent when it does not suit their narrow interest - such as the democratic and peaceful regime they violently overthrew in Iran in 1952 as part of an oil grab. They then installed a brutal dictatorship that led to the rise of the islamic radicals.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 06, 2012, 08:30 PM EST

  That brit trolls like you would condone it.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 06, 2012, 07:06 PM EST

  Curtis - For the record, what exactly were you implying with the 'torture and abuse as part of his enumerated job duties' rubbish, then?

• Realist | Nov 06, 2012, 02:42 PM EST

  seamus60: "a disgrace to Republicanism"? Again, like any decent person, I was thinking of Mrs McConville and her 10 orphaned children, not the further tarnishing of an already discredited political ideal. It seems to anti-peace process terrorist apologists like you the victims do not matter, the same way that this week David Black's widow and children do not matter. "Had PIRA been in control of prisons allowing them to house prisoners I`m sure all the relevant points you highlight would have been applied as in normal conditions"? "normal conditions" like routine knee-cappings, tar and feathering, and summary executions? PIRA, without exception, executed on site - it was/is their modus operandi. Prisoners were a one-way-street, as were legal and human rights. The security forces took thousands of prisoners, both Loyalist and Republican, during the "Troubles". How many of them were executed? To equate isolated incidents of misconduct with the behaviour of the enemy ranged against the French Resistance of 1940 - 44 is a wet dream that only people like you entertain. Moreover, I dare say the people of France would not care for the comparison of their Marquis with the Provos. I used the term "armed struggle" within inverted commas. For me it was terrorism, nothing more. Nonetheless, perhaps you can clarify what exactly was the point? To wage a brutal and futile terrorist campaign for nearly 25 years after any remaining inequalities in local government were addressed? To wage a brutal and futile terrorist campaign to subvert the democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland? Well, I don't mind admitting it, I'm confused. I can only imagine how perplexed you must be.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 06, 2012, 02:29 PM EST

  Hello, Brit trolls. For the record, I haven't condoned or prejudged anything. This is in sharp contrast to britain's triumphalist justification of its world wide campaigns of nation mugging.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 06, 2012, 01:35 PM EST

  Seamus - Who asks these self-appointed anti-democrats to 'struggle'?...NOT THE IRISH PEOPLE...

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 06, 2012, 01:29 PM EST

  Curtis...What a pathetic attempt to justify murder by anti-democratic zealots...

• seamus60 | Nov 06, 2012, 05:38 AM EST

  Realist. Was the detail of Jean Mc Conville and the other dissappeareds burials not in enough detail as I have already explained " A disgrace to Republicanism ". I can hardly be more honest and or abrupt yet you demand more. Had PIRA been in control of prisons allowing them to house prisoners I`m sure all the relevant points you highlight would have been applied as in normal conditions. Most likely the French resistance would have done the same. Do you not think ? The brits we all know are prone to the more than often execution of prisoners via shoot to kill etc. Thats been proven, don`t know if the French would get up to that. Anyway as for my position ( you discribe in various details, knowing me so well and all) I do question the futility of the struggle from the perspective of how long back the leadership were in bed with the brits, dismantling the Army from within. Was the struggle wrong ? of course not. Thank you though for acknowledging it as an armed STRUGGLE as opposed to criminality.

• Realist | Nov 06, 2012, 04:34 AM EST

  curtisjohnson: "filth" is how any decent person would describe the murderers of a 52-year-old father of two and those who condone this (that would include you then). "Would you include abuse as part of his enumerated job duties?" No I would not. Do you have evidence that it was?

• Realist | Nov 06, 2012, 04:24 AM EST

  seamus60: "What is not true?" Read my posts again vis-a-vis your laughable comparison of the Provisional IRA with the French Resistance.

• Realist | Nov 06, 2012, 04:20 AM EST

  seamus60: Would you please describe, in as much detail as you can muster, the "decent burial" afforded to Jean McConville? Then tell me about the justification, the lies, the denials spread about her murder. Do you agree with Mitchel McLaughlin that her killing was, and I quote, "not a crime"? May I see her trial notes, her right of appeal documentation, her prison records, the correspondances with her family? As an anti-peace process Republican who refuses to condemn the brutal murder of a prison officer (the same murder described by Sinn Fein as both "futile" and "wrong") you are in a bit of a predicament. Stranded either as a moral and legal pariah or left questioning the whole "armed struggle" as also both "futile" and "wrong".

• curtisjohnson | Nov 05, 2012, 08:41 PM EST

  leahkinsella, is your post serious?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 05, 2012, 08:40 PM EST

  Realist is the type of filth that would support and condone any british atrocity merely because it was performed by a brit in uniform. Nothing done by the IRA or dissidents will ever be a drop in the bucket compared to the worldwide evils of the british terror state. Incidentally, the reason this person was shot is pure speculation at this point. Would you include torture and abuse as part of his enumerated job duties, Realist?

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 07:48 PM EST

  Realist. Temper temper, try and keep it civilised no need for insults. We`ll end up not speaking.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 07:28 PM EST

  Dano. Who never recognised unionists rights to see themselves as British.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 07:21 PM EST

  Seamus...Unionists see themselves as British...and the GFA, as ratified on an ALL IRELAND basis, recognises their rights...and they have a 'cause' as well...

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 07:06 PM EST

  Realist. What is not true ? I know what is true, Republicans will allow Mr Blacks wife and children the dignity to bury him properly. They will not be baton charged, shot at with plastic bullets etc etc. The norm for fallen volunteers who have deserved a decent burial. Don`t give me lectures on the dead, not even the dissappeared as I have on many occassions called them for what they are. A total disgrace on Republicanism.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 06:55 PM EST

  Dan. The french resistance had no prisons either to house prisoners, you can guess what they done instead.

• Realist | Nov 05, 2012, 06:50 PM EST

  seamus60: That is not true. In your response to me, on another thread, you likened the Provisional IRA to the French Resistance and by implication sought to equate the respective opponents in each case. I have dealt with this fairy story in an earlier reply below.

• Realist | Nov 05, 2012, 06:43 PM EST

  seamus60: "I have bid Mr Black to rest in peace"....you're a comedian my friend. It demonstrates just how skewed whatever you have for moral compass really is. An innocent man, husband, and father of two, was shot to death for doing nothing more than his job and you will not condemn this as murder or those who perpetrated it as murders. What else is there to say? Spare us your 'students union' propaganda and fumbling rhetoric. Shame on you.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 06:40 PM EST

  Seamus - You frequently cite Marion Price, eg not being treated humanely, no access to 'proper democracy'...but how humanely was Mr. Black treated...how will he now access 'proper democracy'?

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 06:39 PM EST

  Dano. The loyalist death squads led by king rat and others such as Adair apply a belief that they brought republicans to the table by their policy of targeting Catholics ( any Catholics ) in response to PIRA actions. The Nazi`s had the same policy in relation to French resistance operations against their occupier.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 06:28 PM EST

  Seamus...should say...I've kinda lost track on this one...How do the French resistance come in to things here??

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 06:27 PM EST

  Seamus...I've kinda lost on this one...How do the French resistance come in to things here??

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 06:26 PM EST

  Leahkinsella. I think you should revisit Curtis post and the one it was in reply to.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 06:01 PM EST

  Realist. I have bid Mr Black to rest in peace. More than the enemies of republicanism have ever done to fallen volunteers. As for being an apologist for convicted terrorists ( your definition ). How can I be that when I don`t recognise the corupt courts that convicted them and still don`t.

• leahkinsella | Nov 05, 2012, 04:53 PM EST

  curtisjohnson: You are a joke. I grew up in Monaghan and I'm sure It has always been in the Irish Republic. What sort of Atlas are you looking at?

• Realist | Nov 05, 2012, 04:52 PM EST

  seamus60: "For me to criminalise those who have taken the decision to fight is to criminalise Bobby Sands and all the others who gave their lives and freedom to the cause." Yes, as an apologist for convicted terrorists, you are in quite a quandary with this. However, you'll forgive me if I, like most decent people, reserve my sympathy for David Black's wife and children. I notice you never mention them. Sad.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 11:02 AM EST

  Realist. You recently gave a very good and honest post that revigourated the words of Brendan Hughs. " The GFA is a British solution to an Irish problem", You went on to point out another truth that all those now taking part are bedded into their british alocated slot. I have already pointed out on many occassions that any single death is another too many be it Catholic, Protestant, officer or even Englishman.For me to criminalise those who have taken the decision to fight is to criminalise Bobby Sands and all the others who gave their lives and freedom to the cause. Its neither my nor their fault that some one has yet again glossed over a problem that will resurface due to lack of foundation. Are you implying Marian Price and others have access to proper democrecy, Real time issues that are having an effect on peoples re-evaluation on what they have agreed to. Not from Woltone or the Nazi`s. I seriously doubt many republicans ever for a moment thought every thing would be rosier for them than others in the garden, when our so called own got their hands on power of a so called democratic nature. But most certainly never expected what we have, An Ireland of equals where some are more equal than the rest born out again by Sf`s DEMAND for the release of Wilson a so called contribiter to the peace process. Who has on no less than 3 occassions breeched the conditions of his early release and still retains his licence.

• glengesh | Nov 05, 2012, 10:54 AM EST

  Shame on those who carried out this crime, for that is what it is. With what right do they take a life and justify it by using a cover of rhetoric that belongs on the garbage tip of history. With what right do these anti democratic groups condemn a further generation to fear and dread?. The Irish people have spoken but you are not listening. The road to the graveyard is not a way forward, never was and never will be. Begone from our fair isle.

• Realist | Nov 05, 2012, 10:24 AM EST

  seamus60: I'm sorry that you will not condemn this murder. Sadly, I feel that you condone it - shame. A man was brutally shot dead here and somehow, in your World, that was ok? When are you going to grow up my friend? Still comparing the Provisional IRA and their dissent offspring to the French Resistance? Dear oh dear....how many times have I heard and read that rubbish? For a start, the French (1940 - 1944) did not have access to any democratic alternative, they were denied proper trials (nevermind rights of appeal), and their Nazi opponents routinely shot them on sight or executed those they captured (or, alternatively, French civilians they rounded up) in open and publicized reprisal. I hope, if you do reply to this post, that it will not be some schoolboy attempt to justify the taking of a man's life in 2012 using the lyrics from a Wolfe Tones song.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 10:12 AM EST

  Dano. Britian leaving Ireland and Unionists leaving are differant. You appear to be getting confused as to others desires.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 09:42 AM EST

  Dano. It was you who introduced the matter of the mans religion not the other posters.

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 09:40 AM EST

  Dano. The same attitude was applied against the French population by the Nazi`s for the actions of the French resistance. Should they have downed tools and went home when faced with this type of intimidation ?

• seamus60 | Nov 05, 2012, 09:27 AM EST

  Realist. Thats a NO to both.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 05:15 AM EST

  Seamus - it was the reaction to the execution that I commented on…that it's OK to carry out such acts, judged by the lack of condemnation…and the general view of some posters that unionists must either ‘roll over’ or leave Ireland…I don’t know if that’s your position, but it is a definite strand on the site.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 05, 2012, 05:14 AM EST

  Seamus – Not wanting to reopen anything, but it’s only stating the obvious that without a bomb in Birmingham there would have been no case for anyone to answer...who wins and who loses any debate is purely a subjective judgement...

• Realist | Nov 05, 2012, 04:34 AM EST

  seamus60: "With respect what is so sickening about this story?"? I'm a little confused and concerned by your responses here. Do you or do you not support the Belfast and St Andrews Agreements? Do you or do you not condemn the murder of this prison officer? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice. Thanks.

• seanomelb | Nov 05, 2012, 01:54 AM EST

  Voter turnout was 56% hardly a ringing endorsement.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 04, 2012, 10:09 PM EST

  By Ulster, are you also referring to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan or just the gerrymandered and contrived statelet?

• Strongbow | Nov 04, 2012, 07:46 PM EST

  Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 04, 2012, 07:06 PM EST

  Seamus - Do you now accept that ALL the Irish people agreed to the terms of the GFA?

• seamus60 | Nov 04, 2012, 04:14 PM EST

  Dano. With respect your back to an arguement you have already lost a few weeks back. The one that if the IRA had not planted the bombs in Birmingham there would not have been any Birmingham 6. You have introduced the fact that officer Black was a more desireable target ( be it only in the eyes of some posters) because of his religion. The very reason I pointed out officer kerr. Officer being the key word as opposed to eithers religion.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 04, 2012, 11:00 AM EST

  The Easter heroes were examples of true patriotism and bravery in the face of overwhelming force - in sharp contrast with british "soldiers" methodically murdering and torturing civilians in their campaigns of nation mugging.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 04, 2012, 10:51 AM EST

  Dano's idols in the british terror forces equate bravery with opening fire on groups of unarmed civilians followed by indefinite detention without cause and sick torture. Their behavior seems to be the same everywhere.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 04, 2012, 10:15 AM EST

  Seamus - I know nothing about this man, and neither do you...if any loyalist group retaliates, the perpetrators of this act must take some responsibility...they chose their target...other groups are free to do the same… that’s the very dangerous angle…Someone needs to call a halt, again….

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 04, 2012, 10:00 AM EST

  Seamus - My point was that all the people of Ireland had a say on the GFA...Self-appointed execution squads are working against the democratic will of the Irish people...simple as that.

• seamus60 | Nov 04, 2012, 08:31 AM EST

  Dano. And again. do the 26 still lay claim to the 6 ? I said dress it up anyway you want as shown by your last post. Amended = dropped. 6

• seamus60 | Nov 04, 2012, 08:25 AM EST

  Dano. Again its been as best can be established what the motive was, his occupation. What you did was introduce the very dangerous angle of it being him, because of his religion. The angle used in the past to justify some INNOCENT Catholic (any innocent Catholic)becoming the TAT.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 04, 2012, 01:14 AM EDT

  seamus - No need to 'dress it up' - The EXACT wording in the amendment included 'The State may consent to be bound by the British-Irish Agreement done at Belfast on the 10th day of April, 1998, hereinafter called the Agreement.' and articles 2 and 3 were AMENDED, not dropped...passed with over 94% average in ALL 26 COUNTIES.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 04, 2012, 01:06 AM EDT

  Seamus...my comment wasn't on the motive for his execution, but on the reaction to it on this site.

• seamus60 | Nov 03, 2012, 08:56 PM EDT

  Dano. Ye can make the mans death appear like a sectarian killing if ye want, it won`t bring him back. Or Ronan Kerr for that matter, OH thats right he was a Catholic. Rest in peace both of them.

• seamus60 | Nov 03, 2012, 08:53 PM EDT

  Dano. They voted for the dropping of articles 2&3, their territorial claim on the 6. Dress it up if you like. They did not vote for the GFA`s implamentation.

• seanomelb | Nov 03, 2012, 07:37 PM EDT

  Was he killed because of his religion or for some other reason???

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 03, 2012, 06:35 PM EDT

  Seamus...The 'people of the 26' did indeed have a vote on the GFA...New Article 29.7 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN- 'The State may be bound by the British - Irish (Belfast) agreement' was put to the people, and carried...

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 03, 2012, 05:45 PM EDT

  Seems our armchair republicans have no problem with the execution of a middle-aged public servant, so long as he's the wrong religion? But how they'll squeal if the other side retaliate...still, these cowards are safely a long way from any danger...

• curtisjohnson | Nov 03, 2012, 04:26 PM EDT

  No doubt the "revenge" will take the form of an atrocity against a non-combatant - most likely a woman or child considering the nature of british "manhood."

• 6countybrit | Nov 03, 2012, 03:37 PM EDT

  LOYALIST REVENGE NOW.

• seamus60 | Nov 03, 2012, 11:05 AM EDT

  Kilsally. The OO are only catching on that there is financial reward when playing ball. As long as they are aware, once so far in there is a point of no return and they will be owned. They don`t have to look far to see the practice in operation. SF already owned, have in fact been helping loyalist sectarian bands in their applications for various funds. Why not, if they`re gonna keep marching all over Catholic areas unhindered, they might as well have nice new shiney instruments to play their offensive sectarian songs, sorry Hymns.

• seamus60 | Nov 03, 2012, 10:52 AM EDT

  Happyhippo. You must have been drinking that strong German beer when looking up the vote. The people of the 26 did not have a vote on the GFA. Though I will agree its a perception that has been strongly encouraged in the game of Rooling by Fooling.

• Happyhippo | Nov 03, 2012, 10:38 AM EDT

  @seamus 60 A referendum was held in both Parts of Ireland 1998.the GFA agreement was passed by the the vast majority in both the Republic and the North,about 5% voted against in the Republic,just for the record,you're right about one thing i do like a beer now and then.

• seamus60 | Nov 03, 2012, 09:26 AM EDT

  Happyhippo. I`ll have some of that you`re drinking. The people in the 26 did`nt vote on the peace agreement.

• Stiofain | Nov 03, 2012, 12:13 AM EDT

  Kilsally: The Klu Klux Klan is also a legal organization, as the neo-nazi parties, in The United States.

• cillowen | Nov 02, 2012, 10:15 PM EDT

  the dirty program i had no idea the madness is ongoing.

• Stiofain | Nov 02, 2012, 09:26 PM EDT

  Belfast Boy: If this is "a hateful rag"why not cancel membership?

• curtisjohnson | Nov 02, 2012, 08:55 PM EDT

  We will see how little the GFA Limerick sequal means to the british terror state once demographics support re-unification - the construction of their MI5 moonbase in the O6 is the beginning of their plan to undermine any nationalist majority.

• Happyhippo | Nov 02, 2012, 08:26 PM EDT

  Looks like the Good Friday Agreement by the democratic will of 99% of both the Republic and the North counts for nothing with some people.

• curtisjohnson | Nov 02, 2012, 08:16 PM EDT

  The orange order and their cousins in the ku klux klan should all be outlawed.

• seanomelb | Nov 02, 2012, 07:24 PM EDT

  The hibs don't march through the streets singing anti protestant songs I fail to see the comparison. The Eu gave the money not Ireland. I repeat the prison officers in the north have a long history of torturing and degrading nationalists.

• Kilsally | Nov 02, 2012, 06:50 PM EDT

  Sorry seanomelb but the orange order is a perfectly legal Protestant organisation around the world just as the ancient order of Hibernians or the knights of Columbus are catholic ones. Indeed the European Union and Dublin government just awarded the orange order four million pounds to build two museums. Republican dissidents are a tiny minority in northern Irish jails, the officers deal with countless other criminals

• seanomelb | Nov 02, 2012, 06:08 PM EDT

  The prisons in the north have a long history of torturing and degrading nationalist. Maybe he came from an orange march singing anti catholic songs and took it out on nationalists prisoners. How can a person belonging to a hate group be allowed in the prison service?? just asking.

• seamus60 | Nov 02, 2012, 05:32 PM EDT

  Belfastboy. Carefull there, the same was said about Bobby Sands not too long ago. Republican prisoners of nineteen sixteen not ring a bell either. Most non political prisoners would be enclined to speak differantly of these screws as they have traditionally not been at the recieving end of the CRIMINALISATION policy.

• seamus60 | Nov 02, 2012, 05:05 PM EDT

  Canadianirish. With respect what is so sickening about this story ?

• aloistmartin | Nov 02, 2012, 04:52 PM EDT

  Lot of Long Term, Pent up, Anger and Frustration, There for Sure !

• canadianirish | Nov 02, 2012, 02:20 PM EDT

  This story sickens me. My prayers go out to Mr. Black's family.

• Belfast Boy | Nov 02, 2012, 11:23 AM EDT

  Rather cynical to make a reference to his OO membership, as if to somehow justify callous murder, though nothing more than I`ve come to expect from this hateful rag. Worth noting that many of the tributes to My Black are from prisoners, both protestant and catholic, who found him a reasonable hard working man. As for the prisoners, they can carry on their dirty protest until they are swimming in their own s*** for all I (and most Irish people) care.

• hermitTalker | Nov 02, 2012, 09:45 AM EDT

  Even if some men were not treated with dignity or still are not in NI prisons, there is absolutely no excuse for this type of murder. The Government must always stay above the gutter ambush sniper activity, lest it become the problem. The NI authorities have in the past. recruiting Catholics for the police and prison authority is a way of correcting that. Please God the community will rally round and reject the return to the violence of the past- than includes both political-religious para-military groups and the loud-mouth Orange Lodge bigots who use "sacred" music to antagonise Catholics in their never-ending marching season.it is not 1492 nor is it "home rule is Rome rule" days any more when peeing on the wall of a Catholic church recently was a way of showing "loyalty" to Queen and Bible!

• seamus60 | Nov 02, 2012, 08:18 AM EDT

  Way to go Martin. Might as well have said that all the prison guards killed by PIRA were an attack on the people. A man only doing his job of abusing republican prisoners. Patsy Gillespie was only doing his job which didn`t include the same abuse of POW`s, yet that was ok.