74 Comments

• krissangel | Jun 06, 2011, 02:03 PM EDT

  Like the pedophelia rampant in the RCC, the Magdelene Laundries will be denied, covered up, and go unrecognized until any survivors are long gone. How sad that nuns abused children (young women) just as badly as priests abused children. Hypocrisy is the hallmark of the Catholic Church, it seems, all over the world.

• SingleDonald | May 16, 2011, 09:16 PM EDT

  One final comment. I saw a '70's based movie, set in a Catholic High School. During a dance, a brother instructed boys & girls, who were slow dancing, to "leave some room for Jesus"!! Now, if Jesus has to get between a boy/man & girl/woman dancing, he has a serious problem! He could then straighten himself out, by seeing a good earthly psychologist!

• SingleDonald | May 16, 2011, 09:12 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, I don't mind reading the writings of Thomas Patrick Doyle, and agree with many of his sentiments. You may be interested to know that I went to Confession this past Saturday, and spoke to the priest, face to face. I admitted my conflicts with my brother, who now accepts Fundamentalism, over Catholicism. I also shared with him my sentiments expressed here, about rejecting Jesus, if he feels a violation of Matthew 5:28 is a "damnable offense". I further explained that when any authority, be it Civil to Deity, considers a non transgression/slight transgression to be a "grave offense", that authority increases its control over its subjects! As a thinking human being, I will resist that! When I last went to Confession, in January, I had similar discussions, with the pastor, concerning Fundamentalism. The monsignor pointed out a teaching in the Acts of the Aposles, which differentiates between serious and non serious sins. "It is right in the Bible", he said! The problem with Fundamentalists is similar to fanatical Muslims. I have learned that the prophet Mohammed instructed his people to attempt to persuade those of other faiths, including Christians, to accept Islam. However, he also stressed that, under no circumstances, were non Muslims to be harassed, or persecuted, if they stuck to their own faiths. Yet, radical Muslims consider all "non believers" to be "infidels", subject to Jihad-Holy War! Similarly, Fundamentalist Christians interpret the Bible to suit their own narrow perceptions. I don't believe any kind & just deity, be he Allah, Brahman, Yaweh, or Jesus would keep a "scorecard" on every person's thoughts and sexual feelings, so long as that person didn't abuse anybody. The priest explained that we all should accept Jesus as a loving & caring God, regardless of our points of view. He didn't condemn my views that sexual thoughts, or even pre marital intimacy, in spite of the Church's traditional teaching against those things.

• JuneAnnette | May 16, 2011, 11:03 AM EDT

  My apologies to the readers for replicating the timely words of Thomas Patrick Doyle. Doyle's bold pronouncement against the bishops of Rome reminded me of a number of occasions in the ministry of Peter and John, as recorded in the book of Acts, on which they confronted the religious rulers of their day, whom they sternly rebuked by saying: “Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.” (Acts 4:19), and again . . “we ought to obey God, rather than men.” ( Acts 5:29-33 )There is a higher authority to which “Peter and the other apostles” deferred and acted upon. One can only admire the courageous stand Doyle took as well, who embarked on a path that invariably put him on a collision course with his spiritual rulers . . the bishops of Rome. The conviction Doyle was under to do that which was right in the sight of God and that which was consistent with the teaching of his Lord and Master Jesus Christ, regardless of the cost, is an inspiration to all who would be regarded in truth by Christ as his disciples.***John 8:31: “If ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed.”

• JuneAnnette | May 15, 2011, 09:00 PM EDT

  SingleDonald, by way of a personal witness, I was born and raised Catholic but approximately 20 years ago a Christian woman placed a Bible in my hands. Like most Catholics I was woefully ignorant of the Scriptures. She knew I was a Roman Catholic but knew as well I did not know the Lord. I began to read and study God's Word from that day on. Over time, the Holy Spirit, whose peculiar work is to guide men into truth (John 16:13) brought me under conviction of my sin and led me to true repentance . . a godly sorrow over my sin and a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. God' describes His Word as a living word . . the word of power . . the word of life . . the word of faith . . the word of truth . . the word of grace and it is that living Word that has imparted spiritual life unto me. By God's grace, I have been “born again” of the Spirit (John 3:3-6) . . “not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Pet. 1:23) I have found e that “peace and joy in believing” the gospel spoken of in Rom. 15:13, and rest by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone who has saved my soul to His praise and glory! I am no more in bondage to sin, nor in bondage to Rome, but have been set at liberty by Christ Jesus my Lord. (Gal. 5) “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36) This is in truth gospel liberty and what is means to “know the Lord, whom to know is eternal life. (John 17:3; Gal. 5:1)

• SingleDonald | May 15, 2011, 01:41 AM EDT

  Correction: It was St. Augustine, not St. Thomas Aquinas, whose teachings set the Catholic Church on its anti sexual crusade.

• JuneAnnette | May 14, 2011, 07:19 PM EDT

  Just another "blot on the Church's history" of the not so holy RCC***the “Holy Inquisition” *** "Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity." - Pope Innocent III***The Roman Catholic Inquisition was one of the greatest disasters ever to befall mankind. In the name of Jesus Christ, Catholic priests mounted an enormous effort to kill all "heretics" in Europe and Britain. The Inquisitions function was principally assembled to repress all heretics of rights, depriving them of their estate and assets which became subject to the ownership of the Catholic treasury, with each relentlessly sought to destroy anyone who spoke, or even thought differently to the Catholic Church. Many of the devices were inscribed with the motto "Glory be only to God." George Ryley Scott describes how the inquisitors, gorged with their inhumanity, and developed a degree of callousness rarely rivaled in the annals of civilization, with the ecclesiastical authorities condemning every faith outside of Christianity as demonic. Few people know specific details of this murderous campaign that lasted over 1,200 years, killing 75 million people.

• jacersagain | May 14, 2011, 02:20 PM EDT

  May I respectfully remind JuneAnnette that the Comment Box is for just that - comments. Not for posting huge extracts from books by Church bashers. Also, pls allow time for yr posts to appear and save us reading triple posts. I have no doubt that people may want to blacken the RCC, justified or not, but this is just harping on and on and on about a blot on the Church's history. It's not the only one and it won't be the last. I choose by my own choice to live by and with the overall clean holiness of the Roman Catholic Church and its Sacraments as handed down by our Christ to it.

• JuneAnnette | May 13, 2011, 09:32 PM EDT

  SingleDonald . . More of the thoughts and doubts raised by Thomas Patrick Doyle, a Dominican priest and Victim's Advocate – Pt 4**My serious questioning started when I found myself on the inside looking out as the clergy sex abuse scandal started to unfold back in 1984. As I saw first-hand the duplicity and institutionalized lying of the self-proclaimed "successors of the Apostles" I slowly began to wonder if the apostles weren't actually a cabal of anti-Christian dolts or on the other hand, I wondered if the infallible connection between the popes, bishops and church monarchy was neither infallible nor divinely willed. It was not exactly a pleasant or secure feeling as my not-quite-paralyzed brain began to ask the inevitable question: "If they can easily lie about raping innocent little children, can they just as easily lie about everything else?" The next stop on the journey was actually the first stop: taking the risk of asking myself what was and was not true and viable about everything else I had been told to believe. I finally paused long enough to let soak in the reality of this deeply embedded dynamic: I (all of us actually) had been consistently told what I must believe. I had never been asked to believe or offered the option of figuring the basics out for myself. " This no longer worked for me.**Source: RichardSipe.com / Article: CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE BIBLIOGRAPHY / by Thomas P. Doyle / Revised May 20, 2010

• JuneAnnette | May 13, 2011, 09:31 PM EDT

  SingleDonald . . More of the thoughts and doubts raised by Thomas Patrick Doyle, a Dominican priest and Victim's Advocate – Pt 3**“Over the course of my years of involvement with the clergy sexual abuse "happening" I have learned that the damage done to the spirituality of the victims has been considerable and in many ways, more difficult to deal with than either the emotional or psychological damage. The victims are not alone in suffering grave spiritual damage. Many of those directly or even indirectly involved with this whole complex phenomenon have found themselves in a growing quandary with their belief systems. I am one of them. For years my belief system and the objects of my faith were gradually shifting, often in ways I did not even notice. Most of what I had been taught about Faith, about Beliefs, about Trust in the human or earthly dimensions of the community of believers, the institutional Church, came under assault. I had believed what the official church had told me without much questioning. I accepted that the Church was what it was and I bought into all of the standard explanations for the historical departures of the institutional Church and its leaders from basic Christian decency and certainly from honesty...like the inquisition, the crusades, the approval of slavery, the colonization of the new world and the Vatican's diplomatic ties to Hitler and Mussolini.**Source: RichardSipe.com / Article: CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE BIBLIOGRAPHY / by Thomas P. Doyle / Revised May 20, 2010

• JuneAnnette | May 13, 2011, 09:22 PM EDT

  SingleDonald . . More of the thoughts and doubts raised by Thomas Patrick Doyle, a Dominican priest and Victim's Advocate – Pt 2 . . If all of these things were true! The problem is that there is no authentic historical evidence that any of it is true. The various titles, roles and offices attributed to popes, bishops and priests are not products of divine revelation but of human invention, often as a response and reaction to serious external threats to the power and wealth of the clerical aristocracy. For example, and it’s a good example, Papal Infallibility was literally invented by Pope Pius IX and forced through the First Vatican Council...for political reasons. The pope’s kingdom, the Papal States, was threatened with dissolution by the Italian social upheaval at the time. Likewise the title “Vicar of Christ” was part of a conscious program of a medieval pope to fortify papal power. This title has had a long and complex and by no means consistent history. It was not applied to the Papacy until the 13th century when Pope Innocent III took it to enhance his overall program of actively concentrating just about all power in the Church in the papacy. Consequently this massive institution seeks above all to preserve itself. Sexual abuse of children or anyone by members of the sacred elite is potentially disastrous for the image, credibility and hence the power of the Church.**Source: RichardSipe.com / Article: CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE BIBLIOGRAPHY / by Thomas P. Doyle / Revised May 20, 2010

• JuneAnnette | May 13, 2011, 09:18 PM EDT

  SingleDonald . . I share with you the thoughts and doubts raised by Thomas Patrick Doyle, a Dominican priest and Victim's Advocate - Pt. 1 “ . . the Church teaches that priests are fundamentally different than other humans. They are, in the words of John Paul II, uniquely configured to Christ. Catholics are taught to believe that priests are special. They represent Jesus Christ. They have very special spiritual powers. Their intercession is essential for anyone who wishes to make it to heaven in the next life. This teaching is the foundation for the clerical culture that runs the Church. Clericalism is the belief that clerics (deacons, priests and bishops) are superior to lay persons and are rightfully entitled to deference, unquestioned respect and exemption from many of the obligations born by most lay people. This clerical world is the home of the men who make up the Church power structure. The Church teaches that this structure is the church. To be a Catholic, one must believe totally in the teachings about the nature of the church strictures and the sacredness of the Church’s clerical ministers. If all of these teachings were true, would there be a need for all of the secrecy? If these teachings were true, especially about the “Christ-like” nature of priests and bishops, would there be such widespread corruption, dishonesty and abuse found among clerics at every level?” Source: RichardSipe.com / Article: CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE BIBLIOGRAPHY / by Thomas P. Doyle / Revised May 20, 2010

• SingleDonald | May 13, 2011, 07:23 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, You may quote the Bible all you want. I believe that Devine Tradition, as well as a non literal interpretation of the Bible, is what comprises "the true church of Jesus Christ". Sure, mistakes have been made, but fundamentalist faiths also make grave mistakes, in their literal interpretations! Remember the classic movie, "Inherit the Wind"? "He who divides his house will inherit the wind"-a passage in the Bible. Clarence Darrow was played excellently by Spencer Tracy, in that movie.

• JuneAnnette | May 13, 2011, 01:37 PM EDT

  SingleDonald . . . I don't need the props and pretense of Rome to worship my God nor to sustain my faith, nor do you! I am now in the company of those who “worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth” . those whom Christ has called “the true worshippers of God.”(John 4:23; Eph. 1:12-14)I was born a sinner, and brought up a Roman Catholic, but by God's grace, I was made a Christian.(Eph 2:8-10) It is the peculiar work of the Holy Spirit to bring men under conviction of sin, lead them to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This I know by personal experience. I now belong to the “true church of Jesus Christ”, comprised only of those “born of the Spirit”, (John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23-25) They are those of whom God speaks of particularly in Eph. 2:21: “In whom the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”**It is a spiritual temple that is in view, and it is the Lord himself that “adds to HIS church such as should be saved.” (Acts 2:47)**This is that church to which Christ speaks that the “gates of hell will not prevail against” and of which Christ is the Head! May God be pleased to lead you into TRUTH by His Spirit (Jo. 16:13) and bring you into a saving knowledge of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. (1 Jo. 5:19-20)**Rom.1:16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth . . “

• SingleDonald | May 12, 2011, 11:45 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, I appreciate your sentiments expressed over several posts. I started having second thoughts about the Catholic Church at age 10. It was over, you guessed it, impure thoughts being "mortal sins". I understand that St. Thomas Aquinas(?) was at least partially responsible for this belief. He was a notorious womanizer, and did other things, as well. When he became celibate, he renounced his past ways. Interestingly, in his youth, he once said, "Lord, grant me celibacy, but not just yet"!! The Catholic Church took his anti-sexual rhetoric to such an extent, that it demonized anything outside of marriage, even "impure thoughts", as being "serious sins". How sad! The Catholic Church, as well as the interpreters of the Bible, should realize that the misuse of sex: rape, sexual abuse of minors, etc. should be considered sins, not such things as sexual fantasies, masturbation, or the consensual intimacy of unmarried partners. Most modern men & women wish to lead decent lives, but don't want to be beholden to either the Catholic Church, or to an ancient tome, on how to lead their private lives. For me, I am still Catholic, and do attend Mass. However, I have long since abandoned guilt feelings regarding the things described.

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 07:40 PM EDT

  Again, I like many former Roman Catholics have elected to OPT OUT! jacersagain . . . this is the ultimate expression of “free-self-thought” by those who aren't brainwashed and / or robotized by their R.C. Minders who have well-taught and indoctrinated their adherents to “Pay, Pray and Obey”! Source: The Scotsman / Article: Austria: Catholics leaving Church 'over abuse' / 12 January 2011 More Roman Catholics left the Church in Austria last year than at any time since 1945, Church officials announced yesterday, linking the trend to disgust over recent cases of sexual abuse of minors by the clergy.Figures published by the Austrian Bishop's Conference said 87,000 Austrian Catholics left in 2010 - a 64 per cent increase over 2009.

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 07:36 PM EDT

  Again, I like many former Roman Catholics have elected to OPT OUT! jacersagain . . . this is the ultimate expression of “free-self-thought” by those who aren't brainwashed and / or robotized by their R.C. Minders who have well-taught and indoctrinated their adherents to “Pay, Pray and Obey”! ***Source: DutchNewsnl / Article: 'More people leave Catholic church' / Friday 04 February 2011 Some 23,000 people officially left the Catholic church in the Netherlands last year, up 25% on 2009, according to Radboud University researchers.In particular, many young people aged 20 to 40 wrote themselves out of the official church register, the researchers said. The researchers say the sexual abuse scandal and the row over the refusal of a priest to give communion to an openly gay man has led to some people leaving the church.

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 07:11 PM EDT

  “My serious questioning started when I found myself on the inside looking out as the clergy sex abuse scandal started to unfold back in 1984. As I saw first-hand the duplicity and institutionalized lying of the self-proclaimed "successors of the Apostles" I slowly began to wonder if the apostles weren't actually a cabal of anti-Christian dolts or on the other hand, I wondered if the infallible connection between the popes, bishops and church monarchy was neither infallible nor divinely willed. It was not exactly a pleasant or secure feeling as my not-quite-paralyzed brain began to ask the inevitable question: "If they can easily lie about raping innocent little children, can they just as easily lie about everything else?" The next stop on the journey was actually the first stop: taking the risk of asking myself what was and was not true and viable about everything else I had been told to believe. I finally paused long enough to let soak in the reality of this deeply embedded dynamic: I (all of us actually) had been consistently told what I must believe. I had never been asked to believe or offered the option of figuring the basics out for myself. " This no longer worked for me.”***SOURCE: CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE BIBLIOGRAPHY / by Thomas P. Doyle / Revised May 20, 2010

• jacersagain | May 11, 2011, 07:10 PM EDT

  It seems everything that I've said about JA is proving true. Now she calls for more people to OPT OUT. I see she plaintively points to a sad site that has garnered only 12,000 respondents out of... what?... millions in Ireland. Irish Catholics have more sense than to fall for Satan's invites.

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 07:07 PM EDT

  “Concluding Comments of Thomas Patrick Doyle*** Many of those directly or even indirectly involved with this whole complex phenomenon have found themselves in a growing quandary with their belief systems. I am one of them. For years my belief system and the objects of my faith were gradually shifting, often in ways I did not even notice. Most of what I had been taught about Faith, about Beliefs, about Trust in the human or earthly dimensions of the community of believers, the institutional Church, came under assault. I had believed what the official church had told me without much questioning. I accepted that the Church was what it was and I bought into all of the standard explanations for the historical departures of the institutional Church and its leaders from basic Christian decency and certainly from honesty...like the inquisition, the crusades, the approval of slavery, the colonization of the new world and the Vatican's diplomatic ties to Hitler and Mussolini.”

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 06:48 PM EDT

  More “free self-thought, expression or own belief” from Thomas Patrick Doyle, R.C. Dominican priest and Victims Advocate / Part Four***“Consequently this massive institution seeks above all to preserve itself. Sexual abuse of children or anyone by members of the sacred elite is potentially disastrous for the image, credibility and hence the power of the Church. The bishops really believe that they are essential to the existence of the Church. Therefore protecting the hierarchy is essential and believed to be God’s will. The popes and the bishops did not have to conspire to keep sexual abuse by clergy buried as deeply as possible. The secretive response is in the blood of the bishops. It is rooted in the fundamental urge to survive. Disruption and disintegration of the monarchical structures of the Church means the end of the system of power and control as we know it. This poses an unthinkable threat to the clergy and to the clerical world. The threat is personal because this world, this monarchical institution, this magical theological support system is the past, present and future of the bishops. It is their source of identity. To change or destroy it is a threat to the very being of the clerics who feed off of it."

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 06:39 PM EDT

  More “free self-thought, expression or own belief” from Thomas Patrick Doyle, R.C. Dominican priest and Victims Advocate / Part Three***If all of these things were true!; The problem is that there is no authentic historical evidence that any of it is true. The various titles, roles and offices attributed to popes, bishops and priests are not products of divine revelation but of human invention, often as a response and reaction to serious external threats to the power and wealth of the clerical aristocracy. For example, and it’s a good example, Papal Infallibility was literally invented by Pope Pius IX and forced through the First Vatican Council...for political reasons. The pope’s kingdom, the Papal States, was threatened with dissolution by the Italian social upheaval at the time. Likewise the title “Vicar of Christ” was part of a conscious program of a medieval pope to fortify papal power. This title has had a long and complex and by no means consistent history. It was not applied to the Papacy until the 13th century when Pope Innocent III took it to enhance his overall program of actively concentrating just about all power in the Church in the papacy.”

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 06:34 PM EDT

  More “free self-thought, expression or own belief” from Thomas Patrick Doyle, R.C. Dominican priest and Victims Advocate / Part Two***“This teaching is the foundation for the clerical culture that runs the Church. Clericalism is the belief that clerics (deacons, priests and bishops) are superior to lay persons and are rightfully entitled to deference, unquestioned respect and exemption from many of the obligations born by most lay people.; This clerical world is the home of the men who make up the Church power structure.  The Church teaches that this structure is the church.; To be a Catholic, one must believe totally in the teachings about the nature of the church strictures and the sacredness of the Church’s clerical ministers. f all of these teachings were true, would there be a need for all of the secrecy? If these teachings were true, especially about the “Christ-like” nature of priests and bishops, would there be such widespread corruption, dishonesty and abuse found among clerics at every level?

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 06:27 PM EDT

  More “free self-thought, expression or own belief” from Thomas Patrick Doyle, R.C. Dominican priest and Victims Advocate***The Church is a visible institution. The Church teaches as official dogma that the Church as we know it, that is, a hierarchical structure that is totally run by celibate male clerics (mostly bishops), was instituted by Jesus Himself. The Church teaches that the pope is the representative (Vicar) of Christ on earth. It teaches that Christ founded His church and left it in the control of the twelve apostles and explicitly willed that these apostles pass this power down to their successors. Consequently the official teaching is that the visible church is run by men who have been explicitly chosen by the Supreme Being. “Furthermore the Church teaches that priests are fundamentally different than other humans. They are, in the words of John Paul II, uniquely configured to Christ.; Catholics are taught to believe that priests are special.; They represent Jesus Christ.; They have very special spiritual powers. Their intercession is essential for anyone who wishes to make it to heaven in the next life.

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 06:22 PM EDT

  Again, I like many former Roman Catholics have elected to OPT OUT! jacersagain . . . this is the ultimate expression of “free-self-thought” by those who aren't brainwashed and / or robotized by their R.C. Minders who have well-taught and indoctrinated their adherents to “Pay, Pray and Obey”! ***Website: 'Count Me Out' / ***So far 12007 people have completed a 'Declaration of Defection'

• jacersagain | May 11, 2011, 05:53 PM EDT

  The Vatican’s Chief Exorcist, Fr. Gabrielle Amorth, has painfully spent his years expelling demons from the souls and bodies of those entered into, unknowingly to them, surreptitiously by Satan. An example of what he works against was seen live on TV when, last Christmas, a mentally deranged woman inexplicably found strength to vault from her position and throw herself at Pope Benedict (an 82 yrs old man) at the start of the Midnight Mass celebrating Christ’s birth, knocking him to the ground. Like the gun attack on Pope John Paul II, here was a clear, televised and recorded example of the power of Satan to use any person’s body to attack the man who wears Fisherman Peter’s shoes today. I pray that June Annette finds her way to use her excellent writing ability to support Fr. Amorth’s endeavours, instead of supporting the evil strength of Satan to use her and her deliberate mis-use of the words of the Holy Bible and selective sources of hate filled authors of anti-Catholic articles to attack the Church that she says she was once a member of. A question she might ask herself, as we all might ask ourselves, would we have attacked Apostle Peter when he denied Christ, not once, but three times? Isn’t it highly ironic that the JPII miracle happened for a nun in the country (France) where Mary Magdalene, whom the foundress of the Magdalene nuns order named her nunneries after, first spread her good news about our Christ?

• jacersagain | May 11, 2011, 05:40 PM EDT

  Recently, Pope John Paul II was declared a ‘Blessed’ one by the RCC. That happened because of a special event that happened to a nun who suffered from the same debilitating disease as JPII did and was cured of it by her prayers to God Almighty by intercession through JPII. While many rejoiced in the finding of proof that JPII was indeed a special holy person, others found ways to disparage JPII and his Beatification. If I wanted to, I could research and find many sources to quote as reasons for why JPII should not have been beatified. I could equally find many sources as to why JPII was justifiably beatified. If I wanted to demonise the RCC, I could, like JuneAnnette, research and find many sources to quote in support of my demonization. Equally, I could find many sources to quote as to why the Church should not be demonised. Most of all, my biggest source of support for the RCC would be my own life’s experiences, especially through the Sacrament of Penance and being able to be enjoined with Christ through the Holy Sacrament of Communion. So too can JuneAnnette. Desertion is such a pain, isn’t it?

• JuneAnnette | May 11, 2011, 10:46 AM EDT

  To those interested in the TRUTH and who wish to access the article to which I have made reference in my 2nd most recent comment concerning Thomas Patrick Doyle, it can be accessed through a Google search. The article is entitled: 'Blowing whistle on sex abuse means new career for priest.' / Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995***As “ja” has said . . “What excellent words in JuneAnnette’s post! Except they are excellent examples of the words of Satan, . . .”***And as I said . . I'm in good company. Thomas Patrick Doyle, Dominican priest, Victim's Advocate and one of the most vocal critics of the RCC was likewise demonized by his detractors!

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 10:17 PM EDT

  I like many former Roman Catholics have elected to OPT OUT! For your information, jacersagain . . . this is the ultimate expression of “free-self-thought” by those who aren't thoroughly brainwashed and / or robotized by their R.C. Minders who have well-taught and indoctrinated their adherents to “Pay, Pray and Obey”! ***Source: Deutsche Welle / DW-World.DE ***Article: German Catholics leave church in droves / 06.04.2011 / Excerpt: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Grand architecture, but empty pews? A record number of Catholics in Germany have turned their backs on the church. They officially cancelled their membership in the wake of child abuse scandals that rocked church institutions across the country. 180.000 German Catholics left their church for good in 2010, and it appears the child abuse scandal was the main reason for the dramatic rise in departures. Data provided by 24 of Germany's 27 Catholic dioceses and published this week by the newspaper Die Zeit shows that 50.000 more Catholics cancelled their church membership last year than in 2009, an increase of 40 percent.

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 09:43 PM EDT

  ja wrote: As ja has said . . “What excellent words in JuneAnnette’s post! Except they are excellent examples of the words of Satan, . . .” I'm in good company . . Thomas Patrick Doyle, Dominican priest, Victim's Advocate and one of the most vocal critics of the RCC was likewise demonized by his detractors!***Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995*** Doyle said no committee or entity of the bishops' conference studied the issue seriously. One bishop, Doyle said, dismissed the crisis proposal as calling for a "SWAT" team. Doyle said another bishop referred to him as an "agent of Satan."The bishops' response to the report over the years "was consistently very condemnatory of what we had done," Doyle said. He said "the bishops' conference did not use the power and information it had to take a leadership position on the issue. They took a defensive position. They tried to cover up and control." Doyle said his frank approach to the clergy sex abuse issue was probably what prompted higher-ups at the Vatican Embassy to edge him out of his canon law post. He said he also believes his outspokenness may have discouraged Catholic University from hiring him as a teacher in 1987. Now, 25 years after his ordination, Doyle works as a military chaplain. He will soon be posted at Lodges Field Air Force Base in the Azores -- smack in the middle " of the Atlantic Ocean."After I get out of the military, I won't be able to get a job in the Catholic church even as a librarian at a convent for retired nuns," he quipped.*** I'll leave it up to the readers to decide who the real “agents of Satan” are!

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 09:17 PM EDT

  js's comment: “To kneel in humility and in prayer in front of the casketed remains (bones) of those men was “Something Else” as we say in Ireland.”****One has to wonder if ja would be as moved and awestruck in the presence of these mens' bones? ***Twentieth Century Inquisition in Croatia ***But the alliance that proved to be the most brutal and bloodthirsty of all was that between the Papacy and Anton Pavelic in Croatia. It was agreed that Anton Pavelic was to be head of the new nation state of Croatia, which was carved out of Yugoslavia during the Second World War. During Pavelic’s four-year reign, he and Roman Catholic Prelate, Archbishop Alois Stepinac, pursued a “convert or die” policy among the 900,000 Greek Othodox Serbs, Jews, and others in Croatia. 200,000 were converted; the 700,000 who chose to die were tortured, burned, buried alive, or shot after digging their own graves. ****Source: Ante Pavelic b. July 14, 1889 – d. December 28, 1959

• Collette2 | May 10, 2011, 08:04 PM EDT

  We are getting it from the horses mouth with Sr Maureen without fear or favour. I love her for that, there should be more of it coming from religious.

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 08:00 PM EDT

  (...more) Well, I say it because I have been free and privileged enough by God and our Christ to have travelled of my own choice to visit the nine known tombs of the original Apostles of our Christ. Judas' place is marked by a barren spot of ground in the Holy Land where nothing has ever grown despite the best efforts of agriculturalist scientists at that spot. The places of rest of the other two are not known, though tradition says that one of them is in Serbia (a journalist covering the Serbian war claims he was shown by a graveyard worker where it is). It was an idea that just happened on me to search for them; I couldn’t throw the idea out of my head once I got it - but what a great adventure it turned out to be. To kneel in humility and in prayer in front of the casketed remains (bones) of those men was “Something Else” as we say in Ireland. I also was privileged to visit Apostle of the Apostles Mary Magdalene’s tomb and St. Paul’s recently excavated and now exposed stone casket. >>> For JA, here’s a bit of a kind jacer’s rub on her shoulders: The very last apostle tomb I visited was that of Apostle Matthew, in Salerno, Italy. How ironic is it then that JuneAnnette pointedly quotes - for this simple jacers attention - from Matthew 7:16: “By their fruits you shall know them”, after me being there in the most exquisitely beautiful looking tomb of all of the Apostles that I’ve been to, and she fails to mention the rest of the Bible’s words in that section (Matthew 7:22 -23)? None of us can be ‘holier than thou’ in the face of the Apostles’ full committed teachings of our Christ’s message. I feel I fail miserably at getting the message of Christ – to Love God and to love one’s neighbours – through the muck of attacks on Christ’s mission and His Catholic Church. But I know I am not alone in that.

• SingleDonald | May 10, 2011, 07:30 PM EDT

  jacersagain, You are pretty much on target, concerning "JA". People like her use the Bible as a crutch, being unable to think for themselves. Yes, she certainly gave her own views on the pronouncements from Rome, some of which I agree with. However, her contempt for the Catholic Church reflects my contempt for the ultra parochial views of the Fundmentalists. I am against ANY religios belief that we humans must control our every thought, word & deed, or face "eternal damnation". The making of a slight, or non transgression into a "grave offense" is what despots, earthly and heavenly, do to control the masses. I don't believe any benevolent God would subject mankind to this type of vice like control. If so, that deity, like any earthly leader, should expect to be rebuffed & rebuked! In answer to your post of 4:53 today, if Jesus "asks" us to refrain from such non transgressions as sexual fantasies, but threatens non compliance, or non sorrow with "eternal damnation", that is NOT free will; it is cosmic blackmail!

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 07:21 PM EDT

  (...more) [[[Oops! There’s glitch in postings. Hopefully this is not a second posting of the earlier one.]]] >> There have been studies that showed that, in some cases, closed shops operated where the percentage of abuse was, and continues to be, as high as 5% and even higher in an even more fewer cases. Indeed, it is exceptionally shown in the business world where an abusive few control the earnings of many (e.g. prostitution and banking). There are pockets within all churches and lay person neighbourhoods that are exceptionally abusive of children, even of adults. If it were not for those ready to speak out or of those ready to investigate (like police officers and some hardy well-meaning investigative journalists), we would not know about them. JA’s pointed demonising of the Catholic Church shows a tendency to shy off attention to what she herself may be being subject to. That is my fear for her as a person and I wish I could get her to see where she is so wrong in her beliefs, pronunciations and accusations on the grand scale that she professes to exist. Those are the writings of a frightened person and that is why I urge her to free herself. Why should I say that? (...more)

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 07:19 PM EDT

  (...more) JA then goes on to use the word ‘demonising’ selectively... a feeble throw back by her. Anyone who attacks the wholeness of the Catholic Church by targeting its black spot is one who is totally misled. I would go so far as to say that that is a fault of some leaders within the Catholic Church of Christ - not to have shown the tenacity of St. Paul in delivering Christ’s message to those who challenge it and the challenge that the Christ gave it (yes, the RCC has had immoral leaders, be they Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, priests or lay people like me, through its 2000 yr history). I did not divert attention to ‘other churches’ – I stated a fact. No Church is without blemish, no religious order, no neighbourhood, no family is without blemish. jacersagain is not without blemish. I have never once in all my posts on Irish Central defended indefensible acts of evil that some religious people have carried out. But the facts are that, sociological studies worldwide have shown that 2% of all people are prone towards sexually abusing others – be they men, women or children. That same percentage applies to all of society, even in any church. (..more)

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 07:04 PM EDT

  I’ve just been thinking about JuneAnnette’s post directly addressing me at 11.20am EDT... I think I need to give a response for all in this debate to see and think about. JA is entitled to perceive posts she reads in whatever light she sees them. To state that mine are in contempt of the Word of God is a horrendously bad mistaken allegation. As one doing my best in this materialistic world of ours to practice my belief in Christianity through the RCC, I hold the Bible, as the RCC does, as a part of my life equally alongside the Traditions of Christianity since the time of Christ. If I was a woman, a bitchy woman, I would say “What a bloody cheek for you to judge me and say that!” but I’m not a bitchy woman and can only look upon that statement with sad eyes for the unknowing one who writes them. I have the Bible book in my home, I read it from time to time, I listen to the words of both the Old and New Testaments at Mass and other RCC religious ceremonies. To be accused of being an anti-biblical apologist for the Church of Rome, the Church of St. Peter, the man appointed by none other than the Christ to lead it, is a highlighting example of the mind of the accuser who claims to be a Christian. In effect, the accuser, singularly of her own judgement, or, as I believe, who is so indoctrinated as to know no other view, accuses another billion people who like me, practice the God-given Catholicism of Christ through both the Bible and Christian Tradition, of the same. That is a remarkably sad reflection on the accuser’s waywardly, brainwashed mind. (More...)

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 06:58 PM EDT

  Are readers of this debate ready for a deservedly longish contribution to this debate? It will have to be read from bottom up. It might bore the uninterested but like any good book, I will finish it and have no more to say under Cathal Dervan's article above, since I've already made my points and no reposte will get an answer.

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 06:52 PM EDT

  What excellent words in JuneAnnette’s post! Except they are excellent examples of the words of Satan, who continually uses and abuses good people like JA to spute venom on the Church founded by our Christ, Satan's enemy. I’ve been writing a response to JA’s earlier posts meantime and I’m going to post it in a few more seconds and hope she sees what I’m getting at. It’s not a return attack... Christians don’t attack fellow Christians, even if they are Magdalene nuns or victims of some misguided Magdalene nuns. I do have a respectful response for Sr. Maureen Turlish as well.. but that;ll be following later.

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 06:23 PM EDT

  For the benefit of jacersagain who wrote: “JA because she is clearly so brainwashed and apparently incapable of free self-thought, expression or own belief,”***MY WORDS: The corporate image of the “holier than thou” Roman Catholic Church has been marred and tarnished beyond repair by the unholy conduct of her sanctimonious priests and bishops who now must endure the humiliation and reproach that they imposed upon their countless victims over decades of unchecked abuse. Roman Catholicism can no longer claim the moral high ground. The “formerly faithful” are no longer guided by their blind faith and unquestioned loyalty to “mother church” . . no longer taken in by the feigned words and smooth talk of her Bishops and Cardinals . . no longer in the grips of fear of those who presume to have power over the souls of men . . no longer moved by those who threaten them with excommunication or eternal damnation . . no longer subject to the authoritarian and unscriptural structure of a church contrived by her Bishops and Cardinals who desperately cleave to power and have failed to practice what they preach. In truth . . . the foundations of the self-proclaimed “one true church of Jesus Christ” are crumbling / collapsing under the insupportable weight of the rot and corruption of lies, deceit and cover up that lurks beneath the surface of its’ pretentious pious exterior. A religious institution that has consistently been proven to place its' corporate image and the reputation of her priests above the welfare of children provides compelling reasons to opt out.

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 06:17 PM EDT

  I am certain those who aren't brainwashed by the Roman Catholic church and whose consciences have not been seared can see through the vacuous comments made by jacersagain, who is unable to see beyond his Roman Catholic rose-colored glasses. The so-called “free thought” he purports to enjoy is not supported by the dictates of the Roman Catholic church which he so ardently loves and so zealously defends and supports . . and I Quote:*** "This loyal submission of will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak 'ex cathedra' in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and that one sincerely adhere to decisions made by him, in conformity with his manifest mind and intention, which is made known principally either by the character of the documents in question, or by the frequency with which a certain doctrine is proposed, or by the manner in which the doctrine is formulated" ("Lumen Gentium", n. 25a)...***Once again I defer to God's Word:***Colossians 2:8:“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”***We all anxiously await your response to Sister Maureen Turlish? ?

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 04:53 PM EDT

  Soft *Aaah!* re SingleDonald's last sentence in his last post. Jesus doesn't ask anyone to submit to Him. He asked that we follow Him. Different thing altogether. He submitted to the will of His Father in Heaven. Don't you think it's enough that we take the lead from Jesus, since He asked us to. He didn't demand it, He asked...leaving the final choice to us all.

• jacersagain | May 10, 2011, 04:37 PM EDT

  I have posted elsewhere on ICentral where JuneAnnette, God love her, has shown that she is incapable of seeing beyond her nose. In fact, I posted that I was so worried about JA (pardon the abbreviation) that I felt she was a Bible-brainwashed person that needed help – the kind that people who followed the Jones or Koresh mantra under someone new like those two that perhaps no one knows about yet – and I even asked if JA was actually crying out for help, to be freed. I also stated in those posts that I would never again engage directly in discussion with JA because she is clearly so brainwashed and apparently incapable of free self-thought, expression or own belief, using quotes from the Holy Bible and other sources (which other sources of themselves are merely opinions of the authors), to back up her statements. I maintain that position of not addressing her directly and showed that in my post yesterday at 04.01pm where I only addressed her opinions and not herself as part of this wider discussion. However, JA has made exceptionally serious wrong statements in her last post, directed at jacers by name *tut tut*

• SingleDonald | May 10, 2011, 03:06 PM EDT

  Collette2, I fully agree that to classify someone as a "Defect of Birth" is abominable, especially when you consider that the child/adult had no control over how he/she was brought into this world. I was merely criticizing the Fundamentalist and Catholic positions on human sexuality. I feel that, if I could meet Jesus, I would ask Him directly if Matthew 5:28 should be taken literally. If He agreed that sexual fantasies, consensual pre marital sex, etc. were "damnable offenses", I would call him (notice the lower case pronoun) an ego maniac control freak, and dare him to make good his "threat" of "eternal damnation", where I am concerned. He would not have the power to do that, I firmly believe! I would further say that "blasphephy" is free speech, and that he should get himself an "existence", by stop taking note of every thought which go through human minds. I believe humans should love and respect a loving God, but not to the point of subservience. The Muslims believe in "Submission to Allah". I refuse to submit to Jesus Christ to the point of having him control my every thought!

• SisterMaureen | May 10, 2011, 11:36 AM EDT

  The religious orders involved have much to answer for and that includes the "four congregations involved in running the laundries - the Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of Charity, Good Shepherd Sisters, and Sisters of Our Lady of Charity." The collusion between church and state in Ireland in the violation of basic human rights is appalling. The sadistic behavior of some of these nuns in the abuse of women and children is a disgrace to all religious communities. For the love of God tell the truth and take responsibility for your sins and crimes! Sister Maureen Paul Turlish - Victims' Advocate - New Castle - Delaware - USA - maturlishmdsnd@yahoo.com

• JuneAnnette | May 10, 2011, 11:20 AM EDT

  jacersagain I perceive in your comments a contempt for the Word of God . . the Holy Bible, but then that has always been the prevailing mindset within Roman Catholicism. Could it possibly be that your resentment of Scripture is borne out of your personal ignorance of it? That is precisely your problem and that of the Roman Catholic Church . . a willful ignorance of Scripture and a preference for Tradition. You're nothing more that an anti-biblical apologist for the church of Rome. As far as demonization of the Catholic Church, this your church has done all by itself; though it enjoys playing the victim. That's called "gaslighting" --- when the perpetrator of something tries to spin a situation in an effort to make the victim look like they did something wrong. As you are unable to justify, defend and/or excuse the reprehensible actions of the predator priests in your midst and the unconscionable cover-up of their crimes by your bishops and cardinals, you desperately attempt to deflect the discussion to “other churches”. It is the consistent pattern of COVER UP by the Roman Catholic church of these crimes that makes them unique and especially reprehensible. If the pastor of any other church was accused of molestation, it would not be dealt with internally. The police would be called and it would be investigated by the proper authorities, (as opposed to a Bishop). Christ said “Ye shall know them by their fruits. .” . . God's Word as it is found in Matt. 7:16

• Collette2 | May 10, 2011, 06:27 AM EDT

  SingleDonald, explain what you mean by 'falling back on a literal interpretation of the Bible, you lost me there. A priest cannot become a bishop if illegitimate as far as the church is concerned if your referring to the 'Defect of Birth.

• SingleDonald | May 09, 2011, 11:11 PM EDT

  Good comment, jacersagain! I can accept some of what Collette2 says, concerning abusive priests and sisters. However, she seems to fall back on a literal interpretation of the Bible, which to most people, is problematic. I always mention Matthew:5-28. Does this mean that me fantasizing over a close encounter with Jennifer Aniston, or Collette2 doing the same about Brad Pitt, is a "mortal sin", worthy of eternal damnation, unless we beg God's forgiveness? I feel I have done nothing wrong, and need not ask for "forgiveness". Constantly going to confession (or even saying Acts of Contrition) over something like this creates terrible guilt feelings about human sexuality. Both the Catholic Church AND Fundamentalist Sects hold on to a puritanical outlook on sex, which has no place, in the modern world!

• jacersagain | May 09, 2011, 04:01 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette keeps up her bible-speak and her demonization of the Catholic Church. I suppose the best example of her closed mindedness can be shown by this: if I put a sheet of white paper with a dot of a black spot on it in front of you and ask what you see, most people would say “Why, I see a black spot!” In reality what you’d see is a white sheet of paper with a black spot on it. JuneAnnette needs to see the wider aspect. So it is with the Christian Churches - the Catholic Church is not the only church with the black spot of child abuse within it – most are clean, good churches, still dedicated to their mission to spread Christ’s message.

• jacersagain | May 09, 2011, 03:45 PM EDT

  I quite agree with Collette2’s comment of today. There were modes of practice and belief back in those days when parents and, yes, the Church, insisted babies born out of wedlock to young women be forcibly given up and sent for adoption (rarely ever, back then, aborted early in a pregnancy). Else there'd be a ‘shotgun wedding’. The tragedy of those practices, especially with young women in their teens and later years, was to regard any baby conceived out of wedlock as being the result of Satan’s influences, called a sin of the flesh back then and even as children of Satan. Young women were often seen as sinners for begetting a baby out of wedlock and treated as such – nuns especially were taught so by the Church. Most people also believed that, even the parents and neighbours of the young woman, which is why pregnant young girls were ‘sent away’ to convents, like catherine74 was. There was hardly ever a word about the fellows who impregnated the women - the worst they could expect was a charge of ‘unlawful carnal knowledge’ and short prison sentence. Thankfully, that has all changed in most mainly-Catholic countries today – e.g. Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Brazil and Mexico – but it still goes on in other Catholic countries. Thankfully too there are support groups in Ireland today; the Irish Catholic Church-established organisation CURA, the Rape Centre and other groups are there too for young pregnant women. Most of all, the sense of shame has all but disappeared.

• Collette2 | May 09, 2011, 04:05 AM EDT

  jasersagain, I don't want to sound disparaging, but children at that age can put on a good front, not wanting to be seen as different. Being coerced to give up babies whether by the church, no especially by the church, when fathered by priest's or by catholic parents, it all falls into the scheme of things and as far as the former goes they aren't classed just as illegitimate but a Defect of Birth. Look up Origins Inc. NSW Australia, a Senate Inquiry has been called into illegal and forced adoptions carried out by agencies including Catholic ones. Terrible things took place.

• kateomprint | May 09, 2011, 03:43 AM EDT

  These places were run by nuns how could they treat other women the way they did. I can't even comprehend the terrors that this lady went through. Imagine that I count myself lucky that I was brought up in a large family with a great mam and dad. I should not feel lucky, it was my right as a child to be cared for. What I wish for Catherine is that hopefully she finds peace within herself and not let them take the rest of her life from her.

• JuneAnnette | May 08, 2011, 08:55 PM EDT

  See no evil; Speak no evil; Hear no evil or . . . . “Deliver us from evil.” (Matt. 6:13) *** Christ is the very essence of truth, who himself declared . . “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” (John 14:6) Truth is the very hallmark of the religion of Christ but is conspicuously absent in the RCC and in its' place there is found lies, deceit and cover up in matters of the most solemn nature. Article: 'Vatican Bank hit by financial scandal... again' / 19 December 2010 / Source:The Independent ' / Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-bank-hit-by-financial-scandal-again-2164321.html ' The scrutiny and attention that their scandalous activities has attracted by the media is proportionate to the gravity of the offenses and especially appropriate to those who claim to be the “one true church of Jesus Christ” and for her priests and bishops who lay claim to being Christ's representatives on earth. Only those who are guided by blind faith and unquestioned loyalty and unable to confront these painful truths can rationalize the unseemly conduct of their spiritual rulers and remain “tethered” to an organization that is so thoroughly compromised both spirtually and morally. Those truly “tethered to the truth” and guided by the Holy Spirit are compelled to leave.” (John 14:16-17; 16:13) ***“For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) (Eph. 5:9)

• JuneAnnette | May 08, 2011, 08:51 PM EDT

  The corporate image of the “holier than thou” Roman Catholic Church has been marred and tarnished beyond repair by the unholy conduct of her sanctimonious priests and bishops who now must endure the humiliation and reproach that they imposed upon their countless victims over decades of unchecked abuse. Roman Catholicism can no longer claim the moral high ground. The “formerly faithful” are no longer guided by their blind faith and unquestioned loyalty to “mother church” . . no longer taken in by the feigned words and smooth talk of her Bishops and Cardinals . . no longer in the grips of fear of those who presume to have power over the souls of men . . no longer moved by those who threaten them with excommunication or eternal damnation . . no longer subject to the authoritarian and unscriptural structure of a church contrived by her Bishops and Cardinals who desperately cleave to power and have failed to practice what they preach. In truth . . . the foundations of the self-proclaimed “one true church of Jesus Christ” are crumbling / collapsing under the insupportable weight of the rot and corruption of lies, deceit and cover up that lurks beneath the surface of its’ pretentious pious exterior. A religious institution that has consistently been proven to place its' corporate image and the reputation of her priests above the welfare of children provides compelling reasons to opt out.

• HoundofUlster | May 08, 2011, 04:50 AM EDT

  The Church is an ostrich - apologies to that fine bird - and will never admit to any wrong doing.

• jacersagain | May 07, 2011, 09:55 PM EDT

  (...more) catherine74 goes on to say she spent six months in a convent being cared for by people ready to care for her when her own family didn’t want to know her, or didn't want the neighbours to know? She claims the Catholic Church abused her, without saying how – did she feel abused by being made to alleviate the convent’s expenses in caring for her and her fellow pregnant girls by being assigned some housework? Doing laundry in a caring Catholic institution is abuse? Being coerced into parting with her baby is her claim (probably true) but perhaps it was her parents who did most of the coercing – not wanting a grandchild of the kind she produced in undesirable or unfortunate circumstances? Sorry, I’m just playing the devil’s advocate here – not ever trying to take away from the reality of Catherine 74’s suffering. I know a few women who were forced to give up what were once called illegitimate babies and are still suffering mentally today like catherine74. Then, the persuasive ones in the media said "There's no such thing as an illegitimate baby, there's only illegitimate parents". I wouldn’t know what they’re called today. I do see today, in many a neighbourhood, very many young grandmothers looking after their unmarried teenage daughters’ babies. See what happens when you destroy good nuns and their convent facilities... it all ends up back in your own backyard. And still people will talk about what you did last summer... what pound of flesh will compensate for lack of parental ignorance or abuse? (Pls note I am playing the devil's advocate in these comments).

• jacersagain | May 07, 2011, 09:44 PM EDT

  My comment below is not meant to ‘put down’ abused people. Like fredic below, I’d ask questions too. I am a native Irishman, with a brother, who attended different Christian Brothers Schools, and we have sisters who attended nuns’ convent schools. None of us ever suffered or knew of abuse during our times in those schools apart from a rap of the strap for forgetting to do homework or being shouted down for missing lines in classroom recitations etc. In fact, it came as a shock to me to see an old school-friend of one of my sisters, a girl who I remember as being either an orphan or an abandoned child, being one of the present-day outspoken Irish leaders of those seeking retribution against the nuns of their school. When I knew her, vaguely I must admit, as a 10-15 yr old like my sisters back then, she was always happy and smiling, no sign of the horror she says she suffered. She was in our family home on a few occasions after school hours and never showed any fear about going back to the convent that provided her with boarding and schooling, unlike some of my own neighbourhood childhood friends being afraid to go back to their own parents’ homes for fear of what either their Mom or Dad might do to them when they got home. Life, discipline and justice in Ireland were very different back then from what we know today. Real, true perspective is needed overall. While being very conscious of catherine 74's heart-breaking post below, I’d have to play the devil’s advocate and ask how she became pregnant at such young age - through family abuse, street rape or playing games in the haystacks? (More...)

• Collette2 | May 07, 2011, 08:33 PM EDT

  Autralian entrepreneur and successful businessman Richard Pratt once quoted: A personal commitment from someone who reports to a higher authority cannot be relied upon, in this case it isn't God although it should be.

• jacersagain | May 07, 2011, 08:26 PM EDT

  Why don't the abused children of the Magdelene's sue their natural parents for lack of parental care, abandonment and shout out for why their parents ignored and continue to ignore them since they first committed them to the Magdelenes's care? No one but the Magdelene nuns and their kind would accept and care for them back then. Anyone stupid enough to believe the image of Magdelene care portrayed in the movie is the whole truth and nothing but the truth needs their head examined. Much abuse did occur but not to the extent portrayed. The movie was made only to make money off the frenzy of outcry about child abuse and is nothing else but a capitalist venture off the backs of the abused. It would never be accepted in any court of law as evidence - all scenes in it were acted out to ensure we viewers were left aghast.

• esatdigiwank | May 07, 2011, 12:59 PM EDT

  eff the church

• frederic | May 06, 2011, 03:40 PM EDT

  Catherine 74 had you no Mother or Father sisters or brothers to take care of you?Why did they allow that to not only happen to you but to your little baby?their grandchild? Parents and immediate should take a hefty part of the blame for what happened to you>God forgive them as you are finding it hard to do.

• smithsligo | May 06, 2011, 03:01 PM EDT

  For readers interested in learning more about the Justice for Magdalenes (JFM) campaign referred to in the article, please visit our website at www.magdalenelaundries.com or find us on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=210438695709&v=wall Catherine74 -- please contact JFM at info@magdalenelaundries.com --we have some resources that might be of help. And, "sorry" for what you have gone through. We are hopeful the government might make an announcement in the coming days that finally might bring justice. Thank you for your interest and support.

• mamaginnty | May 06, 2011, 02:58 PM EDT

  Catherine74, my heart goes out to you, I made a comment a couple of weeks ago about my sisters best friend, and it was exactly as you described, she still cries for her lost son. Priests and Nuns how could they be so evil. Borefield nuns teaching in schools...that was out in the open, my own children taught by nuns, but there was some real bitches as well as the good.

• borefield | May 06, 2011, 02:24 PM EDT

  For those that were abused I feel sadness. I do think it's overkill and a new found way to get money for many. I was educated by the Sisters of Mercy for 12 years. I have fond memories and respect for those fine Nuns.

• IAPRINCESS | May 06, 2011, 01:37 PM EDT

  Total disgust at the treatment these women endured.

• JuneAnnette | May 06, 2011, 12:54 PM EDT

  P.S. . . catherine74 . . The time is long overdue for the sanctimonious priests and bishops of the Roman Catholic Church to endure the humiliation and suffer the reproach that they imposed upon their countless victims over decades of unchecked abuse.****Ex. 22:22-23: “Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry . . “****May God be pleased, in His mercy and providence, to bring the uncensored . . unedited account of these unspeakable crimes to light!****“For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; nor hid, that shall not be known.” (Luke 12:2)****GOOGLE . . 'Catholicabusesurvivorsni'

• JuneAnnette | May 06, 2011, 12:39 PM EDT

  catherine74 . . I too wish to express my sympathy for what you have endured and the lingering emotional pain and trauma you continue to carry with you. You are not alone.**“Suffer the little children” . . a flagrant abuse of power “For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; nor hid, that shall not be known.” (Luke 12:2) ***The time is long overdue to tell the story of what has to be the most unreported news story of the century in the context of the Roman Catholic X files . . time to expose the brutal institutional abuse committed by RC clergy in Northern Ireland, of what can only be regarded as crimes against humanity, which the so-called “princes of the church” of Rome are working tirelessly to consign to history and keep hidden from the public eye, in what amounts to the MOTHER OF RMAN CATHOLIC COVER UPS!. The time is come to expose the depraved men of the cloth in the RCC who subjected vulnerable children to a life of terror and torment, whom they abused with impunity and intimidated into silence. The time is come to expose the sick and twisted Romish paedophile priests who stole their innocence and consigned them to a life of unrelenting misery, fear, & trauma, reducing them to nothing more than chattel to be passed among themselves as play things to satisfy their insatiable and depraved sexual appetites. Time to tell the world of the forgotten children, whose harrowing stories of degradation, humiliation, shame, pain, suffering and sorrow cry unto Heaven above for justice and redress.

• catherine74 | May 06, 2011, 12:29 PM EDT

  i want my compensation ..those responsable cost me my child my freedom and almost my sanity i want justice and i am not ashamed to talk publically .. i did nothing wrong .. i was made to feel unclean and be a pennatent for life . i want my pound of flesh . i want my character free from the stain of knowing the catholic church ever in my life

• rugbyplayer | May 06, 2011, 12:23 PM EDT

  Will the accusations in Ireland against the RC Church ever end? What groups haven't yet attacked the Irish Church for abuse towards them? Leprechauns? Banshees? Tinkers? Sennachies? The Wild Geese?

• SingleDonald | May 06, 2011, 12:20 PM EDT

  Catherine74, My greatest sympathies are with you. Unfortunately, I am ignorant of the basics, regarding the Magdalene Laundries. Could you please direct me to a source, where I can learn about it? Also, are the Sisters of Charity, referred to in this article, the Sisters of Charity, of Halifax? That order taught me, in Catholic Grade School.

• Sparklet | May 06, 2011, 12:11 PM EDT

  catherine74 - wish I could offer you more than a *hug*. Ive read books but can only imagine what it was like. And these people call themselves Christians.

• Searlit | May 06, 2011, 12:03 PM EDT

  Dear God, this is heart wrenching! How could this have been allowed to go on for so long? I hope you can find peace catherine74. All of the women deserve recognition and compensation for what they have been through!

• feliciamaisey | May 06, 2011, 11:40 AM EDT

  catherine74, I am so sorry what you went through and would very much like to learn more about the truth behind the laundries. look me up on FaceBook and contact me if you would not mind sharing your knowledge with me. It is time for the Church to stand in accountability for the brainwashing and pain it has caused generation after generation of its members.

• catherine74 | May 06, 2011, 10:39 AM EDT

  i am a magdalena i spent 6 months hard labour in high park laundry dublin 9 ..i was sent there by a socialworker named mrs mcevelley from castlebar co mayo .i was pregnantand put to work in the laundry ..then when i was too heavily pregnant i was sent to dunboyne mother and baby home . i was used and abused by the catholic church ..i was cohersed into parting with my child .. ive lived on medicnes ever since .. i was sectioned 2 hours after final adoption papers were sighned .. i live in liverpool and i personally hate the church and what it supposidly represents .. i ate the bible in that plase twice sometimes three times a day .. i want my pound of flesh even if its in monetary .. i want it .. ive been sectioned and been in intensive care so many times since i blame the papist daughters of satan ..