85 Comments

• jacersagain | Mar 01, 2012, 02:59 PM EST

  Both the Chicago Sun Times and James O’Shea have got it all wrong insinuating that Cardinal George is snubbing Enda Kenny’s attendance at the Irish Fellowship Club’s dinner and, worse, making it out to be “the latest... in the cold war between Ireland and the Vatican”. There’s a great little letter in today’s Irish Times about Cardinal George’s decision to attend the youth retreat instead: “One would have thought it laudable that Cardinal George of Chicago put a greater priority on fulfilling a prior commitment made to a youth retreat rather than “snub” the young people of his diocese in favour of a political shindig with our Taoiseach (Enda Kenny). One calls to mind the 3rd Century church manual the Didascalia Apostolorum (Teaching of the Apostles) which reminds bishops that they should not interrupt their teaching and preaching to make a fuss about a visiting dignitary”. Good on Cardinal George, shame on the Chicago Sun Times and John O’Shea for twisting this event in to something it’s not. I hope the high school youth on retreat give the Cardinal a resounding standing ovation for turning up for them.

• seanomelb | Feb 29, 2012, 05:03 PM EST

  The catholic church has produced many great free thinkers and some paid the price of excommunication. I never claimed that the church was devoid of free thinkers. I stated that the church supresses all taught other than what they wish you to hear, afterall I was refering to the theatre of the absurd that the pope is infallible. The mind bending begins at an early age "the cathecism" which has as much relevance as Mao's little red book or Ghaddafi's little green book.

• stephen1553 | Feb 29, 2012, 03:02 PM EST

  Cardinal George's comment about the gay pride parade and the KKK .........It was intended to sow hatred in the black community against gay people.............Welcome to the love of the church....................BTW google "cardinal George hides molestation" and see whats in his closet......

• barneyjo | Feb 29, 2012, 10:48 AM EST

  @IrelandNorth - And why would he not try to do that. Its way better than the little war we had that not too many cared about in the first place. A United Ireland built on trust and mutual respect is fine by me, and a good many others I suspect :)

• IrelandNorth | Feb 29, 2012, 06:51 AM EST

  Taoiseach (phon. tea-shock) Enda Kenny is no Martin Luther. He's the leader of the proto-unionist Fine Gael (phon. finna gale), aligned with the European Union Christian Democrat bloc. It is pro-British Commonwealth. His quite probably well rehearsed stage-managed and scripted assault on and closure of the Vatican was pay back for a peferential loan from the British Exchequer and ingatiating to EIIR. It's all about constitutional feng shui to make northern protestants feel more comfortable about a united Ireland.

• barneyjo | Feb 29, 2012, 03:13 AM EST

  @Tempranillo?? - "but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ" Really? I regret to inform that I am still not as yet "A Walrus" Not an assumption, rather a given fact!! An honour to correspond with you "Your Holiness" :)

• barneyjo | Feb 29, 2012, 03:11 AM EST

  @Tempranillo?? - "but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ" Really? I regret to inform that I am still not as yet "A Walrus" Not an assumption, rather a given fact!! :)

• barneyjo | Feb 29, 2012, 01:27 AM EST

  seanomelb. Your amusing notions on Catholics who most know have consituted some of the greatest thinkers in world history, hardly presents the image of a free thinker. If you knew but a little of this 2000 year old and divinely instituted organization, you would know that according to the self same church and as a reasonable person would expect from the God who IS Reason, there can never be a church doctrine in contradiction to reason. There you have it. Freethinking in the worlds first universities , catholic ones was the norm with few exceptions. Catholicism for all her (and my) human failings has nurtured the genius of the west and the world along with human rights to an incalculable degree. Cheers.

• barneyjo | Feb 29, 2012, 01:21 AM EST

  Hi barneyjo..Agreed that to forgive is divine, so I'm sure you'll readily forgive me for finding the doctrine of papal infallibility given the eminently reasonable divinity of Christ and putative wisdom of God, the only possible game in town. It also is well presented in the earliest practices of the church. It's very nature does of course imply the divine. Popes have confessors and a couple were pretty bad, but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ, and how could a person like that not be divine? Cheers.

• tempranillo | Feb 28, 2012, 08:45 PM EST

  now barneyjo, were I to agree, surely we'ld both be wrong. been fun. perhaps next time, we'll raise the proverbial pint. misneac and seanomellb....i've puzzled over the misneac commment, for if my comments are not warped, is it my bad luck not to be a muslim....i don't quite understand how being muslim is at all affectedby 'warped and bigoted comments.' if free speech is the beef, why not simply say I think frree speech should have limits.

• seanomelb | Feb 28, 2012, 05:01 PM EST

  To disagree with misneac is to be bigoted so much for her principals on free speech.

• barneyjo | Feb 28, 2012, 04:03 PM EST

  @tempranillo - Ah but one man's imposition could easily be framed as one man's clarification to a given end; ie "I'm right, you're wrong, get over it" Definition by creation surely!!

• cynicus | Feb 28, 2012, 12:49 PM EST

  Time for this old man to consider a little bit of Christian doctrine! I presume he knows what that is about?

• tempranillo | Feb 27, 2012, 10:20 PM EST

  this may be on interest to Barney, Ger & Toronto...... Papal Infallibility Becomes Dogma http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/papaldogma.aspx by Michael Whelton On September 8th, 1713, Pope Clement XI issued a Bull, Unigenitus, which among other things condemned the proposition that reading of the bible is for everyone, 1 and seemed to exalt the efficacy of grace to the point of destroying liberty. It also appeared to limit the Church to the predestined only.2 The storm of protest that arose against it proves conclusively that 18th century Catholic Europe had little notion of Papal Infallibility. This Papal Bull almost brought France to the brink of schism 3 and the Austrian Emperor forbade the Bull Unigenitus in his territories.4 This Bull sparked a debate as to the limits of papal authority. Sicilian seminaries were teaching their students that General Councils were supreme over the Pope and were using Unigenitus to show how Popes could err.5 Everywhere, the battle over Unigenitus caused a decline in the reputation of the See of Rome as a teacher of doctrinal truth. 6 In 1789 the Protestation of the English Catholics was signed by all the vicars-general and all the Catholic clergy and laity in England of any note, and solemnly declared before Parliament that we acknowledge no infallibility in the pope.7 Even in 19th century England and Ireland, Papal Infallibility was still denied as an article of Catholic belief. In 1822, Bishop Baines, Vicar Apostolic in England, wrote that Bellarmine and some other divines, chiefly Italians, have believed the Pope infallible, when proposing ex cathedra an article of faith. But in England or Ireland I do not believe that any Catholic maintains the infallibility of the Pope8 In 1825, a British Parliamentary Royal Commission was established in view of the forthcoming Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829. Some of the questions put to Roman Catholic Bishops are as follows:

• tempranillo | Feb 27, 2012, 09:44 PM EST

  barneyjo-i've been trying to describe PI as it is defined. since it bwcame dogma, PI ha s been used on one occasion. It is not an everyday soert of thing. That said, one wonders why the need for it in the first place.....do councils do such a bad job? and, note that the PI was pronounced just as communications were becoming modern...maybe it was the Vatican anticipating executive privilege. what is really interesting is the assertion that the church doesnt do new dogma and doctrine.......it only clarifies

• misneac | Feb 27, 2012, 09:03 PM EST

  You people with your warped and bigoted comments are very lucky you are not Muslim ! I can not come to terms with the vicious comments coming from people born and raised in Ireland !

• barneyjo | Feb 27, 2012, 07:46 PM EST

  @Torontohab - of course you are entitled to your own opinion as I am mine. In my case, I do not accept that Papal infallability is a gift from God, but rather it is an assumption based upon a (very) loose interpretation of Scripture. I expressed my opinion in an earlier post. I do not believe that it is possible to separate the human condition an its influence on every man and woman. I have read enough history to know that the actions of many Popes in history were driven by anything but Divine Guidance. Matthew 16:18-19 is the foundation, but I have seen no instance where the Pope can claim "Im right, your wrong; get over it" To err is human, but to forgive IS Divine!!

• seanomelb | Feb 27, 2012, 06:26 PM EST

  "papal infallibility a gift from God" what nonsense infallibilty is just a political tool used by a myriad of religions to suppress free thinking and control the minds and souls of the populace. God is an invention of man,a power tool to justify wars and the suppression and control as I have said to control independent taught.

• Gearoid4 | Feb 27, 2012, 02:10 PM EST

  Thanks for your reply, Barneyjo. I still contend that society at large did not really understand how to tackle the scourge of sex abuse of minors during the 60's or 70's. Church Canon law recognized it as a grave sin and it was viewed in the light of it being a failure of the spirit to overcome temptation to sin rather than a deeply-rooted, pyscho-sexual aberration that required specialist counselling and an appropriate sentencing in court. Secular courts did not have a consistent policy of sentencing regarding this in countries like the US, Ireland or GB. It was a great pity that bishops did not utilize the full weight of Canon law to punish those found guilty of such crimes in ecclesiastical courts. Dioceses in the US and in Ireland as well as other western countries employed psychologists who often released their patients back to their parishes again without releasing the recidivist nature of their affliction and this was to be disastrous for the future victims. We cannot ignore the clericalism inherent in the attitude of bishops who placed the defense of the institution and accused priests above the interests of the victims. These factors all coalesced to create the conditions for these scandals to take place and remain hidden from public inspection for decades. You further take issue for using the term "predators in priestly garb". My intention was never to play down the fact that these man were ordained to the priesthood but rather to point out that they behaved like "wolves in sheep clothing". Their clerical attire was the outward expression of their office and thus many people trusted them for being representatives of Christ in the priesthood. But a dark reality remained obscured within those who so disgracefully betrayed their vocation and the awful consequences of this has been revealed to us all to often through the media.

• Toronthab | Feb 27, 2012, 12:27 PM EST

  Reading some of the comments, it's a little disheartening to realize the general level of knowledge of my fellow westerners who ideally have the benefit of at least 2000 years of history. Papal infallibility is a gift of God, not a psychological tour de force. So even with the very few 'bad' popes's there was no bizarre formulated doctrine. "Bad" popes often still respected their office, whatever their faults. They often followed the loss of so many saints ministering to the Black Death incidentally. The church has indeed been portected from error in doctrine and sacarment since Christ led his small band of apostles. The church is about 2000 years more than the corruption that the John Jay report clearly states is a western-worlwide problem , though from the press, a thirty year old administrative foul up is more serious than ongoing problems in the Boy Scouts of America and the list of over 6000 leaders they refused to hand over. Hmmm.

• Toronthab | Feb 27, 2012, 10:56 AM EST

  Papal authority and infallibility , for the successor of the 'bishop of Rome' was acknowledged long before it was formally defined in the earliest christian writers. It's also ironic to find people claiming the book authorized on the authority of these same bishops.. what we call today the "bible", being used to argue against their authority. I can understand though, as I was surprised to see how strong the evidence is for papal claims, which from an organizational standpoint, just show God's no dummy. Rather difficult to call a council for a billion Catholics every morning as events arise, don't ya think? One of the major appeals of Catholicism is her simple sanity.

• IRELAND1970 | Feb 27, 2012, 09:17 AM EST

  AMERICANS SHOULD MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND KEEP OUT OF IRISH AFFAIRS... IM 'IRISH' LIVE IN 'IRELAND' AND THE MAJORITY OF US AGREE WITH WHAT OUR GOVERMENT DONE... SO PLEASE JUST SORT OUT YOUR OWN AFFAIRS AND KEEP OUR OF YOURS.. CHEERS THANKS

• barneyjo | Feb 27, 2012, 02:59 AM EST

  @tempranillo - "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. What you tie on earth will be tied in heaven. What you set free on earth will be set free in heaven." (Matthew 16:18-19)And dont forget this was the man who went on to deny even knowing Jesus prior to his death. That still doesent mean that Peter or his successors would not make mistakes ( and many Popes have)You cannont negate the impact of the human condition to be mistaken, no matter who you are or what you do. Peter made mistakes; and many of his successors, right down to the present day have made mistakes also. Silliness? I could equally stand before a large crowd at a Ball game and declare "I am a Walrus". I am not a Walrus, and never could be. Papal infallability is an assumption, not a given, as there is no basis in Scripture for it.

• tempranillo | Feb 27, 2012, 12:12 AM EST

  barneyjo--as i understand it, infallibility is now an attribute of the office. performance was not a condition imposed upon the office, nor the attribute. so, an idiot, duly elected, could dictate an infallible dogma. the issue would be the legitimacy of the elelction. but, were everyone to agree that the idiot were not, the papal election would be valid unless the impediment were discovered, proven, etc. i offer this silliness to illustrate a point--behavior doen't nullify the attribute of infallibility. if i misunderstand, please set me right. otherwise, this is a great set-up.

• badolan | Feb 26, 2012, 10:03 PM EST

  Judging from the looks of him,I'd say he's busy that night. Busy porking an alter boy or two and covering it up.

• barneyjo | Feb 26, 2012, 07:56 PM EST

  @Gearoid4 - I also meant to comment on your views relating to moral lapses in the 1960s and 1970s and how the abuse was not understood. It was understood back then and it has been understood, and reports of such abuses have been collated by the Magesterium of the Church for well over 10 Centuries. If it were not so why then were eminent saints of the church sufficiently exercised so as to draw up policies to deal with abuses. "Liber Gomorrhianus" written by St Peter Damien around about 1051. Peter Damian was especially indignant about priests having sexual relationships with adolescent boys. He singles out superiors who, due to excessive and misplaced piety, have been lax in their duty to uphold church discipline.Liber Gomorrhianus is also significant because Significant attention is given to the "hurts" of the victims of priestly abuse. Others including St Benedict have written in a similar vein. Interestingly, what is common in both cases was the level of dis interest that both men met with when they presented their writings to either the Pope in the case of Peter Damian, and his Superiors in the case of Benedict. Sound familiar??

• canadianirish | Feb 26, 2012, 07:14 PM EST

  My sentiments exactly, 'seamusryan'. He's just an old coot.

• bandcompletely | Feb 26, 2012, 06:42 PM EST

  There are always going to be those Catholics who will ardently defend the representatives of their church, no matter how vile their acts. If, heaven forbid, it was discovered that the pope himself committed an evil act upon a child, there will be those who will defend that pope vehemently. Defence of the church is necessary for some because for the church to be a fallacy is to bring into question their faith. Without faith, there is no hope. Without hope, there is no purpose. Without purpose there is no will. Without will, there is no God. Or maybe they need to understand that one doesn't put faith in a church, but puts faith in God. If there is a god, there is a will, if there is a will, there is a purpose. If there is a purpose, there is hope and if there is hope, there is faith. And faith is in God, not in the necessity to believe in a Church and pope. You can accept that the Church is forsaken. God won't mind you thinking this way because he has already forsaken it. This is shown by the fact that God doesn't attend mass any more. He went a few times and then gave up on it because after you've been to one mass, you've been to them all: It's just a ritual of standing up, sitting down, kneeling down, murmuring a couple of phrases, partaking of some soluble dough, and drinking the very odd glass of wine.

• barneyjo | Feb 26, 2012, 05:31 PM EST

  @Gearoid4 - less obfuscation if you please; these were not merely "predators in priestly garb" they were (are) ordained priests of the Catholic Church. They were not posing as Priests; They are Priests, and by definition their ministry would be just as valid as any other priest of the church who may or may not also be a Paedophile!!

• Gearoid4 | Feb 26, 2012, 05:14 PM EST

  I'm putting it into perspective, Eiriamachn because if you focus on the Church alone, you are inclined to miss the bigger picture concerning the magnitude of this plague called child-abuse within society as a whole. I do not for one moment, excuse the predators in priestly garb, who have committed such terrible acts or the bishops which covered them up. They all should be dismissed and face jail time. I understand the fundamental problems which caused this things to happen in the Church. The sins of priests were treated by their superiors and psychologists used to evaluate them during the 60's and 70's as moral lapses rather than a mental, recidivist condition. Society then had not really got to grips with the causes or symptoms of this terrible evil There was no linkage in my comments between child rape and abortions and it is disingenuous of you to attempt to do to make this. They are too very separate evils which should be treated as such

• barneyjo | Feb 26, 2012, 05:12 PM EST

  @Tempranillo - How can you say that the praise and backslap for Maciel from John Paul II is not a clear indication of the invalidity of Papal infallability? Do you seriously believe that if there was even a whiff of scandal attached to Maciel that he would ever have gotten so close to the Pope. And the reason he was able to was, that the Pope DID NOT KNOW just how depraved Maciel was. So on the one hand, Papal infallability guarantees the validity of Dogma, Encyclicals and the like, but yet allows for the near santification of a serial paedophile predator beside the chair of Peter, and beyond the walls of the vatican itself. So, if the present Pope or his successor were to say "we were wrong about homosexuality" then that would be ok by you?

• eiriamach | Feb 26, 2012, 04:56 PM EST

  @Gearoid4 What . . . IS . . . the . . . RELEVANCE of child abuse statistics for schools and homes? How is child abuse elsewhere relevant to child sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church? Is anyone inclined to excuse or overlook priests raping children simply because relatives also rape children? Does anyone think that an uncle who rapes his nephew somehow CAUSES a priest to rape an altar boy? "Priests are no worse than other rapists"-- is that your point? Whatever you say to the contrary, if you think there is any point whatever to comparing priest rapists with child abusers in schools or families, you haven't begun to understand the problems that exist in your Church. Also, the comparison with abortion is another puerile attempt to blame the sins of churchmen on women. The number of abortions has nothing to do with the frequency of rape by priests; this comparison may be comforting to misogynist male Catholic priest defenders, but it is ludicrous. What is the point-- rape is not as immoral as abortion, so priests are not as immoral as women? Looney Tunes comparisons! If abortion were to become illegal in the US tomorrow, Rpman Catholic priests would still be raping children tomorrow! There's no connection between the two.

• Gearoid4 | Feb 26, 2012, 04:26 PM EST

  Statistically child abuse is more prevalent in families, national school systems and other such public bodies. Also other Religious organizations experience the same level of molestation of minors within their ranks as comparative recent studies show. The majority of abuse cases revealed within Catholic ranks were at their height during the 1960's-80's and have subsided very much since then I know that talking about statistics hides the psychological damage by such acts to the victims which stays with them during their life spans. One can never ignore this. What a cold, uncompassionate attitude you have to the destruction of millions of human lives with potential over the last 4 decades. It makes one shudder to read it. Your depiction of the Church as "misogynistic" is so far from the facts that it has become a parody of the truth. The Church celebrates the dignity and beauty of femininity as represented by motherhood and resists anything which assaults this, like abortion or contraception. A number of women Saints like Therese of Lisieux have been declared Doctors of the Church, which is as high as you can go, in terms of recognizing the unsurpassed wisdom and goodness of someone within the Communion of Saints.

• ciaradexy | Feb 26, 2012, 01:43 PM EST

  Gearoid, yeah another 40 million people on the planet would be brilliant! That's just what's needed. You refer to the church as 'her'. The church is an anti-women misogynistic male dominated organisation so to refer to it as 'her' is not right. ''What other organization of similar significance has even got to this stage.'' What other religious organisation has endemically raped 10s of thousands of children? What are you comparing it with?

• Gearoid4 | Feb 26, 2012, 01:17 PM EST

  The Church is undergoing a much needed purgation for the terrible sins committed by some of her members and has recently convoked an international gathering in Rome to collate and implement the current best practices with regard to child protection. What other organization of similar significance has even got to this stage. There has can be hiding place for the perpetrators of these evil deeds for whose who have facilitated them. As a couple of other commentators have stated, people are haranguing the Catholic Church, while the abomination of abortion stills persists unimpeded, and which has cut short at least 40 million lives over the last 30 years in the US.

• kwhitesure | Feb 26, 2012, 12:59 PM EST

  The more "UnChristlike" the hierarchy of the Caholic church behaves...the guiltier they appear. They appear to me...and I was born and raised Catholic...as a sect that has gotten away with way too much for way too long...and if they want to have the positive effect in the world that Christ wanted them to...they need to take responsibility for their past and actually begin to behave in such away that would exemplify the Jesus that I read about in the bible.

• Intercessor | Feb 26, 2012, 11:58 AM EST

  To take Cardinal George's place has anyone thought of doing the works of jesus by "Going out into the highways and byways" and finding the homeless to invite to this Gala St. Patrick's Day Feast? Oh, I'm sorry! The homeless probably wouldn't be able to dress for the occasion! Well, maybe they could find a Survivor from Chicago's Priest Pedophilia Scandal to take Cardinal George's place. That way the Church in Chicago could show the Church in Ireland that they are truly sincere in their apologies to those molested, raped or sodomized by Roman Catholic Priests!

• seamusryan | Feb 26, 2012, 10:56 AM EST

  If Cardinal George wants to have a hissy fit, let him. I'm sure the event would rather have Kenny as main speaker than George as an attendee anyway.

• hermitTalker | Feb 26, 2012, 10:16 AM EST

  Some ofyour comments are so hateful, they betray an unresolved anger which you take out on the RC Church. angry with your father/parents/ Sr Ruby in grade school? As to the defender of Protestantism, read your history of the USA, including the JFK 1960 bgotry, and the worst child-abuse which is abortion of the unborn American girls and boys which those leftist-loonies approve, in their "liberal" minds. Obama is one of them. Grow up, see the roses, then smell them. Strong coffe may wake you up, unless it is against your "healthy" diet plan.

• tempranillo | Feb 26, 2012, 09:58 AM EST

  Barneyjo--I was responding to an earlier post.....and I really wished the xerox macine had been invented before revelations were made. that said, the dogma of infallibility would not aply tothe maciel mess....i'm still trying to figure out what is meant bt 'true believer,' as if folks who beleieve in something else believe [or know their belief] is false

• ciaradexy | Feb 26, 2012, 09:28 AM EST

  Hollaback, you are one of the few voices of reason on this site. Your posts are consistently a joy to read.

• hollabackgurl | Feb 26, 2012, 09:22 AM EST

  The Cardinal KNEW the gay parade would be held HOURS after the last mass because the organizers and the city told him. For decades it has passed without incident because there has been no one there. He attacked them because they are winning equality and civil rights he wants to prevent that at all costs. He's the real KKK part of this equation.

• ciaradexy | Feb 26, 2012, 09:15 AM EST

  Hermit, paedophilia isnt an addiction you fool! Youre patronising anyone who has ever been abused! Addiction can be controlled and maybe even cured to a point but paedophiles are sexually attracted to children and are predators. Its odd how you are so anti abortion and yet you call raping kids an addiction. Youre all about saving the unborn and yet those who are already born, youre just not all that interested in.

• hermitTalker | Feb 26, 2012, 08:23 AM EST

  Cdl George's fear that the gay parade would disrupt the Mass was based on their 2in your face" coming up to make a political protest at some Masses. He also knew that if they started insults they might meet with non-pacifist Catholics. It was so misunderstood he apologised. The Irish Taoiseach knew the Pope and Irish bishps had put safeguards in place for clerical abuse, the one bishop had ignored them in Cloyne. Who catches a most vicious attack, the "Vatican" aka this same pope. like shooting two US army officers becase two Korans were burned in error in Afghanistan. I cannot say if the cardinal, whose mother was a McCarthy snubbed the club or Mr Kenny, but we have no business saying he had an excuse to stay with his prior commitment. Most of the blogs on here are so dishonest and unfair. The IRISH Government has still to pass a LAW to protest its children, the Church has done so. The Church went back 50 years to a time when child abuse was seen as a moral fault and not an addiction, a serious disease. They are cleaning that up, do they get any credit, no blame blame blame. OBAMA is pushing the worst child-abuse -abortion, and his Pl P'hood buds are doing the same to teenage mothers sneakily. Get after the real moral evil and lay off the Church that is full of flawed people but does heroic work for education, medicine, foood and agricultural aid to overseas people in need. Bigots are usually blind to truth outside their nannow tunnel vision of life.

• ciaradexy | Feb 26, 2012, 07:33 AM EST

  Jetsnoone, you could be onto something there! At least the protestant church isnt a woman hating, womb hijacking, peodophile filled, nazi loving organisation.

• barneyjo | Feb 26, 2012, 06:30 AM EST

  @tempranillo _ "If you are a true believer you MUST hold that the Pope is incapable of being wrong in matters of faith and MORALS" If that is so, then I would very much like to hear your take on how and why John Paul II lauded, praised, and held up to the faithful as an exemplar of Ministry, Father Maciel Maciel, and his Legion of Christ" A Pedophile Priest who fathered his own children in several countries and then raped at least some of them. Papal infallability? No, I dont think so, not when you consider the action that Benedict had to take against Maciel. Who is praising him now. Papal infallability is a rule of man, not God, imposed on the faithful by man, not God!!

• seanomelb | Feb 26, 2012, 01:42 AM EST

  Just to fill you in jetsnoone I was educated in the catholic school system and I am now an atheist.You are welcome to your dictatorial cardinals and your pedaphile priests. You need to lift that veil of opus dei from your face and drench your mind of religious theocracy.

• warlocks | Feb 25, 2012, 11:33 PM EST

  This Cardinal George needs to get over it Forgive & Forgive time to get off his high pompas Arse Get a real life Georgie boy !

• jetsnoone | Feb 25, 2012, 09:58 PM EST

  seanomelb......the protestants are waiting for you, don't let the door hit you in the ass....

• tempranillo | Feb 25, 2012, 08:49 PM EST

  1…………….I'm beginning to wonder if there are any true believers left out there. 1a………………….. Belief is, by nature, unprovable; Faith is not fact. So, true believer is oxymoronic while a false believe defies description. 2………….If you are a true believer you MUST hold that the Pope is incapable of being wrong in matters of faith and MORALS. 2a………….. only when speaking ex cathedra 3……If you cannot accept this dogma then you have essentially opted yourself OUT of the Roman Church. 3a…… well put……but which dogma……..and, what is sensum fideam---a wannabe actor on Housewives?....... 4. ………Gods' true church is not a democracy, we don't get to vote on these matters. 4a…… do we vote if we’re God’s false church?? 5………..Gods' laws trumps mans' every time. 5a………. tho it seems there are interpretations on what are God’s laws? And so I ask, could not have got waited until the Xerox machine had been invented to ensure that all believers---Popes included—got it right?

• tempranillo | Feb 25, 2012, 08:46 PM EST

  I'm beginning to wonder if there are any true believers left out there. Belief is, by nature, unprovable; Faith is not fact. So, true believer is oxymoronic while a false believe defies description. If you are a true believer you MUST hold that the Pope is incapable of being wrong in matters of faith and MORALS. only when speaking ex cathedra If you cannot accept this dogma then you have essentially opted yourself OUT of the Roman Church. well put……but what is sensum fideam---a wannabe actor on Housewives?....... Gods' true church is not a democracy, we don't get to vote on these matters. do we vote if we’re God’s false church?? Gods' laws trumps mans' every time. tho it seems there are interpretations on what are God’s laws? And so I ask, could not have got waited until the Xerox machine had been invented to ensure that all believers---Popes included—got it right?

• Selketre | Feb 25, 2012, 07:06 PM EST

  How nice that the Cardinal did not "dump" the youth group in favor of "something better". I'm sure those gentlemen in the "more prestigious group" will survive their immense disappointment. They are "adults" after all, aren't they?!

• barneyjo | Feb 25, 2012, 06:31 PM EST

  Oh I do hope that the Cardinal continues to hold to his strident views. It is absolutely urgent that he and others do so that those who still follow blindly where these men lead, will, eventually, have the scales taken from their eyes and see for themselves just how far the Church and a major rump of its ministers have departed from the message that Christ as man left with us when in this world.

• seanomelb | Feb 25, 2012, 04:33 PM EST

  The carinal is just another opus dei acolyte and as usual they are out of touch. Living in the repressive religious past when Parish priests acted like petty little dictators and cardinals wre full of their own irrelevant self-importance.

• eiriamach | Feb 25, 2012, 04:22 PM EST

  Catholics ought to be embarrassed that Cardinal George compared gays to the Ku Klux Klan. They ought to reject his bigotry-inciting words. Instead, some here are applauding him! Apparently they are so authority-dependent that they need a church official to confirm them in their homophobia (like Pittsburghkid's) and to give their hatred the imprimatur of 'Catholic moral doctrine.' I pity people who are so blindly obedient to churchmen that they must deny conclusive evidence, out of the Cardinal's own mouth, that he is a gay-baiting, Gospel-hating imposter, not a follower of Christ. It's likely that Enda Kenny, as well as all other invitees, is breathing a sigh of relief that they will not have to deal with him on St Patrick's Day. Considering the many irrational complaints that Catholic posters on IC make lately, I'm surprised IC keeps trying to give fair treatment to churchmen like Cardinal George.

• arx754 | Feb 25, 2012, 04:13 PM EST

  I'm thinking that Cardinal George saw the proposed menu for the event, noted "little boys" weren't being served up, so decided not to bother attending.

• TJMAC39 | Feb 25, 2012, 03:58 PM EST

  The Vatican needs to understand that WRONG was done by their priests and especially the bishops who covered up the wrongs. When you're wrong; then accept responsibilty. Let's not "shoot the messenger"! These scandals have been world-wide; not just ine Ireland. I fault the bishops who did the covering up even more than the priests who abused. Shame on you Cardinal George. You should have accepted the invitation. P.S. I'm still a practicing Catholic. Men made the mistakes; not The Church.

• etighe1130 | Feb 25, 2012, 03:14 PM EST

  One can always count on Irish Central to fan the flames of anti-Catholicism

• Toronthab | Feb 25, 2012, 03:07 PM EST

  Good for him. The church in Ireland was clearly deficient in some significant and serious matters, but this hardly defines her 2000 year history. For the historical illiterate out there the Crusades were as Thomas Madden the creases solar writes the belated response to militant Islam that barely managed to save the remaining third of Europe from being overrun. It really wasn't a TV show or Hollywood movie called "Christians Gone Wild". Look up the BBC doc."The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition" some time too. The record is all there so that even a bigot can find it.v

• Collette2 | Feb 25, 2012, 02:57 PM EST

  I'm sure Enda Kenny won't lose any sleep over that. As a Catholic, I would be more concerned if he did. kilgara, get your you head out of the clouds, it's people like you who have hindered the uncovering of the heinous crimes committed not only against the children of Ireland, but across the world.

• kilgara | Feb 25, 2012, 02:50 PM EST

  I'm beginning to wonder if there are any true believers left out there.If you are a true believer you MUST hold that the Pope is incapable of being wrong in matters of faith and MORALS.If you cannot accept this dogma then you have essentially opted yourself OUT of the Roman Church.Gods' true church is not a democracy, we don't get to vote on these matters. Gods' laws trumps mans' every time.

• Pittsburghkid | Feb 25, 2012, 02:42 PM EST

  When is tihis site going to understand that American Irish do not support the Gay KKK.

• eiriamach | Feb 25, 2012, 02:06 PM EST

  Also, Max Tiger, and most important, the Vatican Response trumpets Canon Law, i.e., that policies "must respect the rights and uphold the safeguards afforded in that Code both to those who complain of abuse and to those who are accused." Giving equal protection to the accused requires that bishops keep accusations out of the press and therefore not report evidence of abuse to police. THIS insistence by the Vatican that Church law must override criminal law "without interference from any outside body" and that "Care must be taken so that the good name of anyone is not endangered" by any "investigation" shows the Vatican's contempt for the laws of the state. It is not in practice possible to investigate the accusations of victims while keeping the "good name" of the accused unquestioned. Protecting the reputation of allegedly abusive priests thus makes it impossible for bishops to cooperate with civil authorities--whatever the criminal law of the state requires. The Taoiseach was absolutely right to criticize the Vatican for its arrogance.

• eiriamach | Feb 25, 2012, 01:59 PM EST

  The number of SSPX and Opus Dei defenders of the RCC status quo seems to be increasing on IC! In reply to the misleading comments by Max Tiger: Kenny did not lie to the Dáil. The Vatican knew that the Irish bishops' Framework document would be printed, published and in effect on 16 January 1996, yet on 31 January 1997, Archbishop Luciano Storero sent his nefarious letter warning the Irish Bishops' Conference against mandatory reporting of child abuse to civil authorities. The Vatican is in the habit of considering policies "study documents" for years, but the bishops could not have done so with their Framework: the abuse problem was horrific and called for mandatory reporting. The Vatican response cites canon 455 of the Code of Canon Law, which reserves control over such policies to the Holy See ("recognitio"). Without such approval of the Framework, Bshp McGee remained free, according to the Vatican, to reject mandatory reporting. The Taoiseach's claim that the Storero letter "effectively gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore the procedures which they had agreed and gave comfort and support to those who, like Monsignor O'Callaghan, dissented from the stated official Church policy" remains unimpugned by the Vatican Response. The Vatican claims it did not have enough time to assess the Framework document properly. Clearly, it had enough time to see that it required mandatory reporting. The Taoiseach's point, "Frankly, it is unacceptable to the Irish Government that the Vatican intervened to effectively have priests believe they could in conscience evade their responsibilities under Irish law" is clearly correct!

• buffaloirishman | Feb 25, 2012, 12:55 PM EST

  I think Bishop George is doing what he thinks Rome will like. That is the bar for all bishops. They are not people of faith, they are not people of the gospel, they are pleasers of their superiors. Actions like this score big points for bishops. Bernard law will be thrilled.

• Nicoletta | Feb 25, 2012, 12:46 PM EST

  Good for Cardinal George. Another Irish Central anti-Catholic story. What's your agenda?

• ciaradexy | Feb 25, 2012, 12:24 PM EST

  Temperanillo-Go díreach! Bhuel sin!

• tempranillo | Feb 25, 2012, 12:11 PM EST

  ciaradexy--- need help with gaeilge.....:) An bhfuil mar a deirim; ní mar is féidir liom

• ciaradexy | Feb 25, 2012, 12:00 PM EST

  The pope has just warned people against 'arrogant' IVF! This is from the same people who brought us the crusades, the inquisition, genocide of indigenous south americans, endorsement of franco and mussolini, complicity with nazism, silence on the holocaust and institutionalized child abuse, this latest instruction on how to live morally...

• Porickseantuny | Feb 25, 2012, 11:50 AM EST

  The Cardinal avoided a situation where his attendance could be construed as an acknowledgement of the Kenny agenda. In addition being there would put the Cardinal in a position of having to listen without any chance to respond.

• NL Forever | Feb 25, 2012, 11:50 AM EST

  If the Church's sins against the Irish people weren't so heinous, George wouldn't be trying so hard to change the subject. But obviously one "close to Pope Benedict" is going to shill as hard as he can.

• misneac | Feb 25, 2012, 11:18 AM EST

  I am delighted the Cardinal snubs Kenny , who jumped on what he thought was a populist bandwagon and joined bigots like Gilmore ,Quinn and Shatter in an ill disguised anti -catholic move by closing the Vatican embassy . All comments automatically use the term " the Church " .What Church are they referring to ? There are a number of Churches ( other denominations ) operating in ireland ,and perhaps it is time to subject them to the same scrutiny , This time hopefully with a just sense of balance and adherence to the facts , and not the usual tiresome cliches used when referring to the Catholic Church .

• Rebelforce | Feb 25, 2012, 11:10 AM EST

  Jesus never called himself "Your Majesty" either, but that doesn't stop the leader of the Anglican Church going by that exalted title. Let's face it, when the Irish government, representing a country historically known for it's Catholic faith, decided to close it's embassy at the Vatican it was a classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

• ciaradexy | Feb 25, 2012, 10:50 AM EST

  SeamusMor, Did Jesus call himself 'His eminence' or give his friends that title? Why is it ok for the leaders of the wealthiest church in the world to give themselves these titles while living in complete contrast to how jesus lived his life?

• PhlutiePhan | Feb 25, 2012, 10:49 AM EST

  If the Catholic Church would so-called "come clean", the anti-Catholic lawyers who control the modern Democratic Party would clean up as well. The Church would be destroyed and that is the real goal of this agenda. Radical women and gays find the Church distasteful for its defense of the traditional family. Enumerate the crowd who have banded around our current president. Bill Clinton went after the poor and marginalized in our society and they responded. Almost all of the marginalized who have gathered in droves around our current president are from the upper crust who are using the poor and marginalized for their own twisted agenda.

• MaxTiger | Feb 25, 2012, 10:40 AM EST

  Kenny lied to the Dáil in his 'Gettsysburg Address'. He said the Vatican had misled the Cloyne commission - they didn't, the commission didn't go through the usual diplomatic channels, it was an unfortunate communication breakdown but not what Kenny said it was. He brought up a letter from the Vatican describing as a 'study document' the new abuse guidelines. Whatever you think of that the reality is letter had no effect and the guidelines where given Rome's backing. The suggestion he made was that the Vatican was ignoring the Irish state's mandatory reporting stance, rubbish, there was not then,and still not, any legal obligation to report child abuse. In fact the coalition Kenny was a member of in the 90's looked at but dismissed introducing mandatory reporting, one of the reasons given was a fear that it could take away the 'good name' of the accused, which was the same fear some in the Vatican had. I don't know about this 'controversy' but if you call people narcissistic don't expect them to be enthusiastic about raising a glass to you.

• SeamusMor | Feb 25, 2012, 10:34 AM EST

  I had the honor of meeting His Eminence at the Irish Fellowship Club's St. Patrick's Day Dinner shortly after his elevation to the College of Cardinals. I asked him how a person surnamed 'George' found himself at an Irish banquet, and he informed me that his mother was a McCarthy! The nurturing and development of the faith of young Catholics at a retreat can hardly be considered a lesser event. The Cardinal is doing God's work!

• frrichardsf | Feb 25, 2012, 10:25 AM EST

  The Cardinal's actions are sad and bigoted. Much in keeping with his homophobic stance.

• like2tweet | Feb 25, 2012, 10:19 AM EST

  Mike Houlihan you need a soother ---- bad

• bbj3212 | Feb 25, 2012, 10:04 AM EST

  Can't comment on the Cardinal's situation but I am fully behind Enda Kenny - about time someone stood up to the Vatican. Pity our bishops didn't stand up against this abomination of the new mass translation that has been inflicted upon us!

• donal1951 | Feb 25, 2012, 10:00 AM EST

  This was not an insult to Enda Kenny and I suspect the Vatican could car less. It's an insult to Ireland and to Irish-Americans. If I were the cardinal's public relations expert, I would have told him to go. A conciliatory attitude will heal legitimate wounds, as many Irish have gotten from the Roman Catholic Church, than an attitude of hate.

• jhmdeuce | Feb 25, 2012, 10:00 AM EST

  Maybe Ireland should cease insulting the Catholic Church

• mikehoulihan | Feb 25, 2012, 09:46 AM EST

  This article is complete baloney. I'm from Chicago. The Cardinal had another gig. This has nothing to do with any anti-Irish sentiments dreamed up by the morons at The Sun-Times or the continually Catholic bashing Irish Central with their gay agenda. What a load of garbage! Reader beware!

• Rachelgaffney | Feb 25, 2012, 09:44 AM EST

  So very proud of Enda Kenny... True leader. Pity the Catholic Church did not take as big a stand on child abuse as they are doing over the current contraceptive battle.

• like2tweet | Feb 25, 2012, 09:40 AM EST

  Controversial move and a real insult to ireland by this right wing nut