Chicago cardinal said to snub Irish Prime Minister’s visit over Vatican Embassy closure

Both the Chicago Sun Times and James O’Shea have got it all wrong insinuating that Cardinal George is snubbing Enda Kenny’s attendance at the Irish Fellowship Club’s dinner and, worse, making it out to be “the latest... in the cold war between Ireland and the Vatican”. There’s a great little letter in today’s Irish Times about Cardinal George’s decision to attend the youth retreat instead: “One would have thought it laudable that Cardinal George of Chicago put a greater priority on fulfilling a prior commitment made to a youth retreat rather than “snub” the young people of his diocese in favour of a political shindig with our Taoiseach (Enda Kenny). One calls to mind the 3rd Century church manual the Didascalia Apostolorum (Teaching of the Apostles) which reminds bishops that they should not interrupt their teaching and preaching to make a fuss about a visiting dignitary”. Good on Cardinal George, shame on the Chicago Sun Times and John O’Shea for twisting this event in to something it’s not. I hope the high school youth on retreat give the Cardinal a resounding standing ovation for turning up for them.

The catholic church has produced many great free thinkers and some paid the price of excommunication. I never claimed that the church was devoid of free thinkers. I stated that the church supresses all taught other than what they wish you to hear, afterall I was refering to the theatre of the absurd that the pope is infallible. The mind bending begins at an early age "the cathecism" which has as much relevance as Mao's little red book or Ghaddafi's little green book.

Cardinal George's comment about the gay pride parade and the KKK .........It was intended to sow hatred in the black community against gay people.............Welcome to the love of the church....................BTW google "cardinal George hides molestation" and see whats in his closet......

@IrelandNorth - And why would he not try to do that. Its way better than the little war we had that not too many cared about in the first place. A United Ireland built on trust and mutual respect is fine by me, and a good many others I suspect :)

Taoiseach (phon. tea-shock) Enda Kenny is no Martin Luther. He's the leader of the proto-unionist Fine Gael (phon. finna gale), aligned with the European Union Christian Democrat bloc. It is pro-British Commonwealth. His quite probably well rehearsed stage-managed and scripted assault on and closure of the Vatican was pay back for a peferential loan from the British Exchequer and ingatiating to EIIR. It's all about constitutional feng shui to make northern protestants feel more comfortable about a united Ireland.

@Tempranillo?? - "but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ" Really? I regret to inform that I am still not as yet "A Walrus" Not an assumption, rather a given fact!! An honour to correspond with you "Your Holiness" :)

@Tempranillo?? - "but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ" Really? I regret to inform that I am still not as yet "A Walrus" Not an assumption, rather a given fact!! :)

seanomelb. Your amusing notions on Catholics who most know have consituted some of the greatest thinkers in world history, hardly presents the image of a free thinker. If you knew but a little of this 2000 year old and divinely instituted organization, you would know that according to the self same church and as a reasonable person would expect from the God who IS Reason, there can never be a church doctrine in contradiction to reason. There you have it. Freethinking in the worlds first universities , catholic ones was the norm with few exceptions. Catholicism for all her (and my) human failings has nurtured the genius of the west and the world along with human rights to an incalculable degree. Cheers.

Hi barneyjo..Agreed that to forgive is divine, so I'm sure you'll readily forgive me for finding the doctrine of papal infallibility given the eminently reasonable divinity of Christ and putative wisdom of God, the only possible game in town. It also is well presented in the earliest practices of the church. It's very nature does of course imply the divine. Popes have confessors and a couple were pretty bad, but the doctrine is predicated upon the divinity of Christ, and how could a person like that not be divine? Cheers.

now barneyjo, were I to agree, surely we'ld both be wrong. been fun. perhaps next time, we'll raise the proverbial pint. misneac and seanomellb....i've puzzled over the misneac commment, for if my comments are not warped, is it my bad luck not to be a muslim....i don't quite understand how being muslim is at all affectedby 'warped and bigoted comments.' if free speech is the beef, why not simply say I think frree speech should have limits.

To disagree with misneac is to be bigoted so much for her principals on free speech.

@tempranillo - Ah but one man's imposition could easily be framed as one man's clarification to a given end; ie "I'm right, you're wrong, get over it" Definition by creation surely!!

Time for this old man to consider a little bit of Christian doctrine! I presume he knows what that is about?

this may be on interest to Barney, Ger & Toronto...... Papal Infallibility Becomes Dogma http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/papaldogma.aspx by Michael Whelton On September 8th, 1713, Pope Clement XI issued a Bull, Unigenitus, which among other things condemned the proposition that reading of the bible is for everyone, 1 and seemed to exalt the efficacy of grace to the point of destroying liberty. It also appeared to limit the Church to the predestined only.2 The storm of protest that arose against it proves conclusively that 18th century Catholic Europe had little notion of Papal Infallibility. This Papal Bull almost brought France to the brink of schism 3 and the Austrian Emperor forbade the Bull Unigenitus in his territories.4 This Bull sparked a debate as to the limits of papal authority. Sicilian seminaries were teaching their students that General Councils were supreme over the Pope and were using Unigenitus to show how Popes could err.5 Everywhere, the battle over Unigenitus caused a decline in the reputation of the See of Rome as a teacher of doctrinal truth. 6 In 1789 the Protestation of the English Catholics was signed by all the vicars-general and all the Catholic clergy and laity in England of any note, and solemnly declared before Parliament that we acknowledge no infallibility in the pope.7 Even in 19th century England and Ireland, Papal Infallibility was still denied as an article of Catholic belief. In 1822, Bishop Baines, Vicar Apostolic in England, wrote that Bellarmine and some other divines, chiefly Italians, have believed the Pope infallible, when proposing ex cathedra an article of faith. But in England or Ireland I do not believe that any Catholic maintains the infallibility of the Pope8 In 1825, a British Parliamentary Royal Commission was established in view of the forthcoming Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829. Some of the questions put to Roman Catholic Bishops are as follows:

barneyjo-i've been trying to describe PI as it is defined. since it bwcame dogma, PI ha s been used on one occasion. It is not an everyday soert of thing. That said, one wonders why the need for it in the first place.....do councils do such a bad job? and, note that the PI was pronounced just as communications were becoming modern...maybe it was the Vatican anticipating executive privilege. what is really interesting is the assertion that the church doesnt do new dogma and doctrine.......it only clarifies