London: There is a lot of overheated and even hysterical media coverage about the situation here in London. Equally, some media coverage, including that of the BBC, has been astonishing in its patronizing complacency and its stereotypical assumptions about race and class. Yet this phenomenon is complex and multi-stranded and reflects deep underlying stresses in British society today.
There are many very marginalized public housing estates in the Greater London area and across Britain, with a legacy of bad relations between police and the local community going back decades, but also with a history of poor provision of support services, high rates of unemployment and a range of related social problems. Generally these are black areas; Britain is not a fully integrated society.
The current spate of incidents exploded following the killing last week by armed police of Mark Duggan, in circumstances which are as yet unexplained. Mr Duggan, a black man, grew up on the Broadwater Farm Estate in Tottenham, the same place where, in 1985, PC Colin Blakelock, the first policeman to be killed in a riot in Britain since 1833, was shot following a series of incidents including the death of an Afro-Caribbean woman, Cynthia Jarrett, from a stroke, during a robust police search of her home.
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READ MORE:
What's behind the London riots? - VIDEOS
Calm restored in Northern Ireland after further riots
London's deputy mayor apologizes after comments about Irish builders
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So far, so predictable. Are the current events in London ‘race-related’? It’s not that simple. Anyone who has seen footage of the looters and rioters who have taken to the streets in the past three days and nights will have noticed that a good number of them were white. As one tweet acidly put it 'The Youth of the arab spring rise up for basic freedoms. TheYouth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV. Something more complicated is going on, hardly captured by the simplistic term ‘criminality’, used by PM David Cameron, even though much of the behaviour has been criminal.
It’s summertime and there is nothing to do. Britain is a society marked by a huge and increasing gap between haves and have-nots in this consumerism-obsessed society, where social services have been relentlessly run down and youth unemployment is at an all-time high at more than 20%. Political life has stagnated, which may be one reason why the frustration of some people is being expressed through such means as an avowedly violent anarchist wing of the British student movement. These are the people who ‘break away’, as the media reports always put it, from peaceful demonstrations and proceed to attack iconic buildings or monuments or individuals thought to be particularly representative of the state. It is difficult to believe that such ideologically driven individuals played no role in the looting and mayhem of the past three days.
It’s a bit ironic that the methods the British used in the Northern Ireland for so many years are not considered to be acceptable here – no water cannon, plastic bullets, baton charges, snatch squads or tear gas. I’m not saying they should have been. The principle of ‘policing by consent’ is a far better one. The ‘Rotterdam Charter’ on policing for a multi-ethnic society embodies the principle that any police force, in its structure, should reflect the society it polices – as we see nowadays with the PSNI. For a variety of reasons, the London police undeniably lost control in the past few days (cutbacks are relevant as well). The people who have lost their businesses in the riots are mostly members of ethnic minorities themselves – small Asian shopkeepers and restaurant owners who have lost everything. Some of the interviews with them on local radio here have been heartbreaking.
It doesn’t have to be like this and there is another, more benign, side to British society. The place where I am staying here is perfectly quiet. It's a mixed council estate, the majority of which is still tenanted, but with a good number of owner-occupiers. The area around (Archway, North London) is very mixed - Asian, black and white - slightly shabby but lively, with a mix of everything from Turkish grocers to Irish pubs. There are very upmarket houses in Highgate, minutes away. The friend who has lent her place to me while she is on holidays says there have been occasional problems with disruptive adolescents but nothing serious; relations with the police are good. The neighbours are friendly and, looking at the numerous children playing around the place, I don't see any sign of segregation on grounds of race.
Professor Mary Hickman, of London Metropolitan University, is Britain’s best-known expert commentator on the Irish in Britain. She has also carried out extensive research on integration in British society. Her work confirms a key point: it’s all about the local. Two of the six sites she and her team studied, Kilburn and Downham, a part of Lewisham, were opposite cases. In Lewisham, where there was a lot of trouble during the riots this week, community relations are poor.
Kilburn, traditionally an area of Irish immigration, is very mixed nowadays - English, a lot of older Irish, younger Asian, recently arrived West Africans. But relations are generally good, largely because people work hard, at local level, at building good connections. This doesn’t have to mean that people will only live with people with whom they believe they share common values, as long as they are willing and able to conduct a dialogue and to decide for themselves what kind of interactions they wish to have with one another.
People in Ireland and in the US may think all this is irrelevant, but I beg to differ. The fissures in British society today may be partly racial, but they are also social. The gap between rich and poor, in Ireland as much as in Britain and indeed the US , has become intolerably wide. We are all being asked to ‘tighten our belts’, social services, education and health are being cut back, but those who are seen as having perpetrated the crisis which has befallen us have not suffered by comparison. The current British riots do show that Britain is not yet integrated, socially or racially. It would be foolish for people in Ireland or the US to feel they are doing any better.
Piaras Mac Einri is an immigration expert and lectures at University College Cork.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.maceinri | Aug 15, 2011, 03:46 PM EDT
muchas gracias themurphia. I'm no problem with disagreements! best
themurphia | Aug 15, 2011, 03:13 PM EDT
OK It is not acceptable to accuse you of being a FF supporter ...! People have enough **** to deal with in their lives...It is my experience that people are so used to dealing with hostility that what really disarms them is politeness/kindness...However sometimes that would require the patience of Job...Sometimes it feels like dealing with kids...teaching them boundaries etc...Hopefully there will be less personal abuse in future...it is tiresome to read and stifles debate/craic...as in the real world the bullies prevail and the quieter people who often have the most interesting things to say retreat...It was nice to have a little light hearted banter on IC recently...! All the best...!
maceinri | Aug 14, 2011, 11:13 AM EDT
the0murphia: fair enough, but I disagree. If you look back over the comments these people have made about pieces of mine you'll find they are ad hominem, without exception, abusive and false - I'm accused of being everything from a rack-renting landlord, to someone who profiteers from 'mass immigration' to a supporter of Fianna Fail. These two (WK and GD) have form - look for yourself. As I say, I have a name and a location: I don't hide behind anything. Personally I'd much rather have a civil debate, as we are used to in this country, and I'm prepared to accept your good faith. I'm not a professional journalist and never described myself as an immigration expert - that's how IC captioned the piece. So I'm going to stand against the groupthink here and say that I stand over my views. I find it extraordinary that you could say that 'wk did not make a personal attack on you' - 'slum landlord'? - seems kind of personal to me!
themurphia | Aug 13, 2011, 03:02 PM EDT
maceineri:WK did not made a personal attack on you he criticised what you had written...you on the other hand have responded with an outburst of vitriole against him...so I think your explanation a little disingenuous... Perhaps on reflection you accept you have responded in the heat of the moment...it certainly seems disproportionate...at least to an objective reader...I find the personally gratuitous comments by contributors on this site wholly inappropriate however since it seems to be acceptable to IC I suppose it's a case of when in Rome etc...!
kathy56 | Aug 12, 2011, 07:47 PM EDT
The riots are nothing more than anarchist gone crazy..there will always be haves and have nots in the world..most of the time if one is willing to work,you can make a decent living..In America, we have entitlemeyoungnts that are strangling the economy,mainly because there are people recieving them that don't qualify..such as young people who are perfectly able to work,and don't,druggie and illegals...the subsidies were intended to help the truly poor,elderly and physical and mentally handicap. Fraud is rampant,but no one wants to cut back on these subsidies...so it grows into "GOVERNMENT SLAVERY". The reasons these rioters give is lame and most likely a lie,it seems they are just wanting riot and pillage. Most ancharist hurt their own people more than anyone else..so they are nothing more than thugs out of control.
WoundedKnee | Aug 12, 2011, 12:33 PM EDT
Macenri or whatever other moniker he uses on this site thinks we should not challenge him on his bigotry. After all, he tells us, he's an "expert on immigration"!!! Won't work, macenri. If you use hatefilled language (on another thread you used the "wacist" slur, because I expressed solidarity with the majority of people in Ireland, who when polled oppose Mass Immigration into their country) I and others will certainly confront you. This is not a game in which the rules are you can use all the dirty slurs that fall out of your mouth while the rest of us kowtow before you. That may work in Ireland, where people like you have been able to stifle all debate on the settlement of the country by foreigners, but it won't work here. You probably have never heard of the First Amendment--look it up. I'll give you a bit of advice. If you want to stop looking like a bigoted jerk who needs to wash out his mouth start, debating rationally. Begin by telling us how you personally profit by Mass Immigration. Are you a slum landlord in Ireland who rents out homes to immigrants? Does your livelihood depend on importing foreign migrants into Ireland?
themurphia | Aug 12, 2011, 12:29 PM EDT
WK's criticism is of the jounalsim not a gratuitous ad hominem attack unlike the so called 'professional' journalist...!
maceinri | Aug 12, 2011, 07:38 AM EDT
@themurphia: with respect I think you're missing the point here. If you look, for instance, at JimCork's points below, you'll see that he and I disagree - in fact we are probably poles apart although I think his criticisms are fair and sharp. But there was nothing personal about his criticism and I'm a big boy. In fairness to IrishCentral I should also say that I'm not one of their writers: I wrote an op/ed piece, without payment, and Niall O'Dowd and his people are not answerable in any way for it: only I am. My problem with the people I criticised is not that they disagree with my views: it's with the extraordinarily abusive, vituperative and personalised nature of their attacks. I think I'm entitled to defend myself against abuse from people I don't even know and who know nothing about me and who insist on misrepresenting my views in a bizarrely inaccurate way. I don't even know who these guys are> One of the privileges of the internet is that anyone can say anything under the cloak of anonymity, but that privilege can be abused. Maybe there is a difference between European and American culture here - I honestly don't know. I think people who have views - of whatever persuasion - should step up to the plate and identify themselves, unless they live in a place where their lives would be endangered. In my case I'm a known individual - anyone who likes can find me at http://www.ucc.ie. Best
themurphia | Aug 12, 2011, 05:40 AM EDT
Wounded Knee: Seems you 'wounded' him...'...you guys are good for a laugh - cheap shots (no comment!) from the sidelines are always easier than hard work...' Now we know what IC writers think of their readers...If you don't want comments/criticsm then don't write for an onine comments page...! Simples...!
themurphia | Aug 12, 2011, 04:59 AM EDT
Blimey...!
maceinri | Aug 11, 2011, 08:14 PM EDT
Hey WoundedKnee - have you and GeorgeDillon ever been seen in the same place at the same time? Your asinine, ignorant and inaccurate views seem remarkably similar. And if you knew anything about journalism, which you obviously don't, you'd know that the headline is the sub-editor's, not mine. Still, you guys are good for a laugh - cheap shots from the sidelines are always easier than hard work, especially from cowards who don't even tell us who they are. My name is out there and I stand over my views: you guys lurk in the shadows like the cowards you are and snipe. Get a life.
WoundedKnee | Aug 11, 2011, 10:37 AM EDT
Macenri's article is very poorly written, isn't it? Poor level of analysis, and full of cliches (is that kind of mediocrity the norm in Ireland now?). And the headline--"important lessons for Ireland and US"--sure fails to deliver. The writer gives us ZERO lessons worth noting. He obviously doesn't have any profound insights to offer.
themurphia | Aug 11, 2011, 10:26 AM EDT
The conduct of the feral elements of Society is not that they are disengaged etc it is that they over identify with the culture of greed the legacy of Thatcher's Britain... They aspire to the type of 'Society' they read..using the term in it's loosest possible sense...about in the Murdoch media...obscene immoral unaccountable...a celebrity *bling* life style cannot be funded by ordinary jobs... hence the descent into drug and gangsterism...the 'get what you want by whatever means necessary' culture... Against a backdrop of bad or no parenting...single parent households multiple different fathers kids having kids no authority figures in the home no concept of right and wrong...no boundaries...out of control kids...This is not about a lack of jobs and opportunity these kids/young people are not ideologues...they reject authority education and work opportunities and seem to value nothing other than consumerism...If they were concerned about lack of jobs why burn down other peoples work places...? Growing up as an immigrant I was made to understand the value of education...the opportunities it could afford... However the thing that really grounded me was that I did not want to do anything to hurt or bring shame on my mother and father...They raised a large family on precious little...their children all obtained professional jobs and own their own homes...I hope they thought they'd done a good job...I am not materialistic and have no lust for money or possessions I cannot therefore understand why anyone would think such things worth burning peples homes places of work or taking someone's life.
Kilsally | Aug 11, 2011, 08:31 AM EDT
a few innaccuracies in this report - social services have not been run down - the Labour government was obsessed with being big brother and state interference - the family unit has broken down and social services stick their oars in more than ever enforcing state sanctioned morals (ie there are tens of thousands of kids taken into care and no foster carers for them because of all the red tape - prime example the old black Christian couple in England who have successfully fostered 15 kids over recent decades but have been deemed unfit to be foster carers because their evangelical (Pentecostal) Christian views on homosexuality - hence some kid left in a care home instead of a loving foster home). Second point the Police Service of Northern Ireland have stated that water cannon would be of no use to the police in England for the type of rioting we are seeing which is small fast moving gangs as opposed to large static crowds where water canon and plastic bullets (baton rounds) are operationally useful. What would have been useful is the French police tactic of spraying rioters with dye to help identify them - turning up to work or the dole office with a blue face.....
simplesandy | Aug 11, 2011, 06:33 AM EDT
Ifeel sorry for the businesses that scrimp and saved to keep a business going in this age . It is sad that these young people could not just march down the street every day and try to be heard this way. They might have gotten a little respect for doing it this way. Yes we are all frustrated over what the gov. has done to its people. And it is happening all over the world. WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!! But will they listen. Sad thing is no one wants to take the responsibility for what’s going on. Yes these are probably dysfunctional children with not a care in the world. Parents can't afford to have them and they then feel deprived. They were never taught that other people have feelings. They are only concerned about theirs. When I heard a 13 year old videoed a situation I asked why was a 13 yr old out at the wee hours in the morning? I feel there has been greed in people with high paying jobs and they take from the ones who have no jobs to go to. Let’s take a cut in pay and build jobs for the youth.
LainieMcEl | Aug 10, 2011, 08:47 PM EDT
According to a BBC interview with two young women, who supported the rioters, they are rioting against the rich. It's all about punishing the rich. But weren't many of the shops that were looted and burned in their own neighborhoods, not in wealthy areas. They also stated that the rioters wanted to prove to the police that they could do anything they pleased. Sounds like anarchy to me.
peterson | Aug 10, 2011, 08:46 PM EDT
I don't know where that idiot who accuses the U.S. Teabaggers of rioting, looting ,etc. got his information, but he has to blame someone for what the liberals have done. I hope their election next year will deliver the appropriate message. Ireland could use a Teabagger party !
JBRAFTREE | Aug 10, 2011, 07:10 PM EDT
I've posted this elsewhere, I really feel this is an ugly start to more large city upheaval due to the economy. If our Police forces don't quell this rioting, all will be in BIG trouble.
seanomelbourne | Aug 10, 2011, 06:37 PM EDT
The looting is only a symptom of deeper societal problems. aleination, poverty, a sense of non involvement, fear and abandonment caused by the British class system.The british upper class have centuries of experience in suppressing the under class.
Pittsburghkid | Aug 10, 2011, 05:42 PM EDT
The solution to the rioter what will be simple give the rioters jobs. This will mean take jobs from whites, and give them to blacks. This is what happened in the 70's after the American riots of the 60's. It is not going to happen again, because the whites are going to fight back. It is going to get ulgy, mealy-mouth media coverage like this is only going to make the matter worse. Every one knows the news is censored. When a Muslim terrorist does his dirty deed, the media will call him a person from a certain city. The slowly but tediously the media will releace that he Arab. Now if the terrorist is white, then he automatically becomes a Right wing Christian. It is interesting that during the Arab Spring journalist were attacked. Let's hope that does not happen in the coming riots.
Ratslayer | Aug 10, 2011, 04:37 PM EDT
What these thugs have done in England is akin to what the TEA BAGGERS are doing in America: Smashing, Looting, Burning Down The House -- even it means destroying the US economy and the nation's credibilty. Yes, Blame the terrorist Tea Baggers for America's credit downgrade and subsequent collapse of the stock market.
Helen Ferone | Aug 10, 2011, 04:17 PM EDT
Just another excuse to rob, pilfer, and destroy innocent people. Did they ever think about people they could have killed including children, or just themselves and their greed.
maceinri | Aug 10, 2011, 04:08 PM EDT
@JimCork: I wasn't trying to present a 'coalface' perspective so much as to look at the underlying 'big picture' and I agree with you about the importance of gang culture, which you certainly know more about than I do - it's not really part of Cork culture to any comparable extent. I would still (respectfully) disagree with you about boiling it all down to single parent families on welfare, but that's another day's discussion. best
LainieMcEl | Aug 10, 2011, 03:19 PM EDT
It has become so easy for society to label causes of misbehavior and assign blame. Single parenting? Under or uneducated? Abused? Racial tensions? Unemployed? Poor? (Didn't I read that the rioters were using Blackberries to communication and coordination? These ain't cheap, baby!)) Undisciplined? Drug or alcohol abusers? Disenfranchised? Starved? (Then why not loot food instead of Tvs etc?)Any one of these? No, all of the above in various doses. There is no one answer, but I can't help thinking that so much of todays problems worldwide is caused by lack of respect for our fellow human beings. Especially of governments lack of respect for the people who they represent and who put them in office.
EphraimKibbey | Aug 10, 2011, 02:37 PM EDT
PART II - SO what has worked in the past? Welfare to workfare in the US by the REPUBLICAN congress under Clinton RAISED TAXES and took people off of the public dole by training them for the jobs that businesses said they needed. It then gave those businesses tax breaks for creating new positions and hiring new people. This worked so well that the fast food restaurants had to raise wages because the pool of workers was disappearing into better paying jobs. All those new taxpayers ended up creating the surplus at the end of that administration. All those new wage earners started buying stuff (not stealing it) creating more demand for products. So what happened? Changing the rules for the business tax breaks so that they could get them without hiring domestically and giving the surplus to the people who least needed it instead of investing it in the country's infrastructure or using it to stimulate more wealth for our nation happened. Governments can choose whether they wish to oversee an upward spiral of their country or a downward spiral by where they apply their country's wealth. It is up to the voters to elect politicians who actually have their country's people's best interests at heart.
EphraimKibbey | Aug 10, 2011, 02:28 PM EDT
PART I - Starving? or bored? are they stealing food or toys? Its the summer and school is out and there are no legal jobs to go to and nothing to do that does not cost money that they do not have. Not in London, not in Ireland and certainly not in America. But don't worry, when school starts, the teachers will be the ones on the front lines again. It will be their job to teach these young people right from wrong (parents used to do that.) It will be their job to teach them respect for other persons and their property (parents used to do that.) It will be their job to make sure that small personal disagreements do not escalate into brawls (parents used to do that.) It will be their job to teach these young people the skills needed for the work force of tomorrow (even though many of them will not be needed or, sadly, wanted.)
jmccarten | Aug 10, 2011, 02:00 PM EDT
Blaming the government for this rioting? Americans learned during the civil disturbances of the 1960's that this type of random violence, arson and looting will not be tolerated in American society. American police are all armed and anyone throwing a fire bomb at an occupied building or hitting a police officer with a baseball bat would be shot under American law. After two days of what we have seen in London there would be mass arrests and thousands of U.S. Army soldiers would be deployed to the streets and the riot would be over. Wake up England and give the police the tools and authority to maintain order in your society.
JimCork | Aug 10, 2011, 02:00 PM EDT
Sadly this is a typical summary from an academic who is far from 'the coal face'. I live near Croydon and use the Croydon Tram daily.At night/evenings and during the day in school holidays there are many groups of feral kids riding the tram looking for an opportunity to cause problems from non payment of fares, littering to damaging property and worse, to rob and mug. They intimidate people easily because they are always in packs. They come from families that are dysfunctional, black and white, race doesn't actually come into it. There are no father figures, so they join gangs. Gangs are their place of belonging, they replace the love and loyalty of family. They don't get chastised at school and don't learn because even when they are there they don't pay attention. I had two daughters in the school system. Teachers spend more time trying to control classes than actually imparting education. The problem is a severe breakdown in social family structure because it is too easy to have children, have the social services hand out apartments/flats and let them pay for you. It is so easy to milk the system and it goes from generation to generation. Also alcohol and drugs abuse are entrenched in these families too. I live here, I see it every day. Return discipline, choke off social service handouts and make people responsible for their own lives.God saves us from the nanny state. Jim
Sparklet | Aug 10, 2011, 12:52 PM EDT
Deprived no. Depraved yes. In the main.
Sparklet | Aug 10, 2011, 12:49 PM EDT
If people are starving they are entitled to fight to survive. I wonder how many rioters are starving though.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 12:47 PM EDT
cillowen:I think you describe what Marx predicted when he referred to the 'Contradictions of Capital' i.e. that Capitalism had an inexorable dynamic would ultimately destroy itself...Industralisation Post Industrialisation Technology where workers would be replaced by machines or techology...I'm dredging this from memory so I'm not sure I've got all the phases...Interesting times...!He was a clever old comrade...!
Reilleyfam | Aug 10, 2011, 12:44 PM EDT
Whether you give them "welfare" or not - if people are starving they will fight to survive - it's an instinct even base animals possess. Find a way to allow people to "earn" a subsistence living or they will kill for survival.
rgray222 | Aug 10, 2011, 12:20 PM EDT
The lesson to learn is easy. If you promise people welfare at every turn you will eventually run out of their money. You will be forced to cut back and it will result in anarchy. There is a reason for the sign "don't feed the bears", once you start they no longer can take care of themselves and they become dependent on your handouts. Once you can no longer provide the handout, health care, education etc then they will attack you next time you come close. It is not complicated to figure out! The government wants you to thing this is a huge complicated issue that only they can figure out but nothing could be further from the truth!
Porickseantuny | Aug 10, 2011, 11:40 AM EDT
How are you going to have a dialogue with people who don't share common values? What kind of PC gobbledigook is the "expert" spouting?
Amante2me | Aug 10, 2011, 11:38 AM EDT
How does destroying and robbing your community solve your problems? Sorry doesn't make sense to me.
cillowen | Aug 10, 2011, 11:16 AM EDT
capitalism is dying before our eyes - technolgy in the hands of nigh everyone brings benefits and dangers to this ism. A system that worked when bottom rungers were as smart as stones. They now fathom the wealth and getting away with murder of their masters class - its more than enough to trigger insanity in collaborating loonies.
joan1954 | Aug 10, 2011, 10:32 AM EDT
As an American, I think evenually we will see something similar but it will be over the jobs issue. I am not anti anything but I can well see where this is heading if somehing isn't done to stave it off. I, for one, don't like issues stuffed down my throat and unfortunately that is what is happening here.
ancavker | Aug 10, 2011, 10:17 AM EDT
Looks like they have started using water cannons and plastic bullets in Britain. As far as deprived, well I don't know, because according to every report I have read, British, American, and Irish, the riots are being coordinated by Blackberrys/Facebook etc. Does not sound deprived to me.
GeorgeDillon | Aug 10, 2011, 08:01 AM EDT
This guy MacEinri is listed as an "Immigration Expert". What the hell is that? My relatives, members of the working class in North City Dublin--they're the real immigration experts. They've seen their communities taken over by foreigners imported by Irish capitalists as cheap labor. And no one asked them did they want their neighborhoods and way of life to be overrun and discarded. They don't count for lobbyists like MacEinri--they're just the Irish poor. Has this guy MacEinri ever bothered to talk to people such as these, whose way of life has been overwhelmed by Mass Immigration? You bet he hasn't--he doesn't want to hear any voices but those who gain from promoting settlement of foreigners. I'd recommend an article in today's online Irish Independent. It's by a columnist called Kevin Myers. He shows how Dublin is inevitably heading for conflict similar to London, because of the mad Mass Immigration policies Maceinri's buddies in Fianna Fail imposed on Ireland.