135 Comments

• curtisjohnson | Feb 27, 2013, 08:53 PM EST

  RF, this is some crazy intense trolling or you are really whacked out.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 27, 2013, 02:44 PM EST

  Since the perfideous Act of Union, 1800/'01 postdates the US patriotic repossession of purloined lands by 24 years, I fail to see how Ireland had any hand, act or part in such dubious imperial misadventurism. Indeed, King George III was known to have said, during hair pulling rants, that: "We lost the colonies through the Irish!" Ireland and the Irish were adequately recompensed by emigration and elevation to the world's paradigm democracy. The task of the British and/or Irish Isles is to influence their respective mainland.

• RobinForester | Feb 27, 2013, 06:19 AM EST

  Someone should point out to our American cousin Curtis-Johnson (and all American Rebels of that ilk) that when Jesse James Washington stole the original 13 US states from the People of the British Isles, it was at that time a four-brother nation under one flag, England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, with each of them owning a 1/4 share each in America. So by my reckoning if you carry this debt forward to the present day, then then Irish-American Legacy and inheritance of 1766, today indicates that Ireland owns a quarter of the USA, and, for instance, when Secretariat won the Triple Crown, the Preakness, Kentucky Derby and Belmont Stakes, it was an Irish horse and an Irish Champion and so on and so forth, to make amends a quick settling up of all overdue USA debts to Ireland should be arranged, or in the alternative a return of this all land to it’s rightful owners would be a more just solution?

• RobinForester | Feb 26, 2013, 10:59 PM EST

  To C J Johnson Esq: So you lose! You have been knee-capped on all your arguments and offered proof that my favourite nation the USA is worse than Britain in many aspects, I was shocked US prisons have had 1300 riots in their history, their cities and workplaces have followed the same pattern and it was you who <---expanded---> this Derry discussion into one round after another of Curtis Johnson points to attack Britain, whilst ignoring the US own similar and more often much worse acts. My reference to Halliburton and the building of ''800 detention camps'' is correct, you were asked to Google it, I'm 100% certain you did so, yet in debate-defeat you're not gentleman enough to admit. If it's any consolation my daughter doubted it as well and she's one super-clever person. What occurred in Derry was a disgrace, then again so was Henry Fords workers riot and control methods in Dearborn. Yanks forget how knowledgeable the English and Irish are about USA history and internal affairs.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 26, 2013, 08:25 PM EST

  @RF – “CJ, are you telling us all you dispute the Presidents Authority to take preemptive steps to quell riots, civil disturbance and protests, Shame on you! “ What are you talking about??? You go from Bloody Sunday, to concentration camps in America, 9/11, the Nazis, Halliburton. It’s insane. Is your next response going to be about Roswell and crop circles? I think you may have had too many shots to the head in all those fights.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 26, 2013, 02:33 PM EST

  The article started out as Bloody Sunday in Derry. There's a lot of extrapolation here, interesting though it may be. The argument seems to be that the end justified the means. So who gets to decide, and for whose benefit? Clearly, the Protestant work ethic is in the ascendant with some, over a perceiveed Hispanic fecklessness. At least the Paddies got a break for a while.

• RobinForester | Feb 26, 2013, 06:46 AM EST

  It does n ot give me any pleasure to read this. It does illustrate that 'he who throws stones', needs to check facts first. (q) By far the most horrendous US Northern camp was Elmira, located in New York a few miles from the Pennsylvania line. Some 9000 prisoners were confined to a camp meant to hold only 5,000. Two observation towers were erected right outside the prison walls. *** For 15 cents, spectators could watch the wretched prisoners within the compound. When winter struck Elmira in late 1864, prisoners lacking blankets and clad in rags collapsed in droves from exposure. By early December, half-naked men stood ankle-deep in show to answer the morning roll call. Repeated requests for badly needed medicines were ignored by officials in Washington. The pathetically equipped hospital lacked beds, equipment and personnel. By late December 1864, at least 70 men were lying on bare hospital floors and another 200 diseased and dying men lay in the regular prison quarters, contaminating their healthier comrades.

• RobinForester | Feb 26, 2013, 05:22 AM EST

  Curtis, has been moaning about ''Anglo-Materialism'' in the USA, will someone please explain to him that it was the English White Anglo-Saxon materialism which made the USA great, without it you would have a Spanish / Mexico siesta society. Try and imagine if you will what it was like when those magnificent people got off a sailing ship called 'The Godspeed' and looked at the future USA for the first time. My medal goes to the first man amongst them 'Who rolled up his sleeves and said to the others "It's going to take some doing, so we'd better start now clearing stones and weeds from that there land now and, make a fire Molly and put the kettle and be making some tea whilst we get started,". God Bless America, and one day please God we can have it back from those rebel infidels.

• RobinForester | Feb 26, 2013, 05:03 AM EST

  CJ, are you telling us all you dispute the Presidents Authority to take preemptive steps to quell riots, civil disturbance and protests, Shame on you! “Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs." Beginning in 1999, the government has entered into a series of single-bid contracts with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) to build detention camps at undisclosed locations within the United States. The government has also contracted with several companies to build thousands of railcars, some reportedly equipped with shackles, ostensibly to transport detainees. According to diplomat and author Peter Dale Scott, the KBR contract is part of a Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of "all removable aliens" and "potential terrorists." Sect. 1042 of the 2007 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies," gives the executive the power to invoke martial law. (Google/ 800 US Concentration Camps)

• RobinForester | Feb 26, 2013, 04:47 AM EST

  Seanomelb. All nations pass through a period where 'men behave as men' and not how we would wish them to'. Incidents like the Boar War, the Nazi persecution of the Jews and the US Civil War revolt all of us, and in a perverse way our revulsion 'UNITES US All, ' and it forms the basis of new laws for the protection of the individual. Here is a reminder: In 1864 Henry Wirz, a Swiss immigrant was assigned the responsibility for Andersonville prison. While both sides incarcerated prisoners under horrible conditions, Andersonville deserves special mention for the inhumane circumstances under which its inmates were kept. Wirz oversaw an operation in which thousands of inmates died. As the Confederacy began to dissolve, food and medicine for prisoners were difficult to obtain. When word about Andersonville leaked out, Northerners were horrified. Poet Walt Whitman saw some of the camp survivors and wrote, "There are deeds, crimes that may be forgiven, but this is not among them." Wirz was charged with conspiracy to injure and murder POW. He was found guilty and sentenced to die. On the scaffold, Wirz reportedly said to the officer in charge, "I know what orders are, Major. I am being hanged for obeying them." The 41-year-old Wirz was one of the few people convicted and executed for crimes committed during the Civil War. It’s a salutary reminder that during the Civil War (RIP all ) war crimes were acceptable' to both sides. The English are no different.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 25, 2013, 09:10 PM EST

  RF, your desperation to shift the focus from the british terror state is getting nutty. 800 concentration camps set up in the US!!! I suppose the US government engineered Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy also? Granted, I am not disputing that the US suffers residuals from the toxins of anglo-materialism (from the supremacis m of Lothrop Stoddard, Dewey’s pragmatism and its ruinous on American education, Woodrow Wilson’s imperialism/supremacism, the klan and its modern incarnations such as the VDARE reptiles, etc).

• seanomelb | Feb 25, 2013, 07:11 PM EST

  Robin I have no problem agreeing with some of what you say. The camps you refer to "American civil war" I understand did not house women and children,and only housed captured soldiers.in appropo to the British who housed men women and children during the boer war. And on another side issue the Yellow star used to identify Jews in Europe was first used in England in the middle ages where anti semitism was rife. 800 camps ready to go in theU.S. sounds like a conspiracy theory. BTW why do you condone the excesses of the British and not admit that they to are culpable of crimes aginst humanity. IrishNorth My father spent some years in the curragh from 1941 it was not a pleasant experience.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 25, 2013, 02:35 PM EST

  Geez! The best book written on this sorry story is Eamon Mc Cann's "Bloody Sunday in Derry", an eyewitness account about what transpired on that fateful day. Of the 112,000 British subjects recorded as living in the 26 counties, (Census of Ireland, 2011), many said they emigrated to Ireland to escape multicultural Britian. Concentration camps, whether run by Americans (Quantanimo), British (Magilligan prison) or Irish (Curragh military camp) are unacceptable.

• RobinForester | Feb 25, 2013, 08:59 AM EST

  Seanomeld is probably unaware of this information that the USA currently has 800 concentration camps under mothballs in case an emergency occurs. See: There have been "Concentration Camps" in the USA for 170 years. When the Germans started building their camps in 1933 they were based on US Civil War camps, just like the final solution was based on an American Eugenics programs already working in the US in the 1930s. On December 7th 1941, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. US citizens feared another attack and war hysteria seized the country. On February 19th 1942 Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066. Under the terms of the Order, some 120,000 people of Japanese descent living in the US were removed from their homes and placed ininternment camps. The US justified their action by claiming that there was a danger of those of Japanese descent spying for the Japanese. At present there over 800 unused prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States. The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of the camps can house a population of 20,000 prisoners. Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska, which can hold approximately 2 million people.

• seanomelb | Feb 25, 2013, 07:01 AM EST

  Foster would not know fact from fiction. The siege of Amristar comes to mind where a peaceful demonstration was mown down by the bristish and at the inquiry some months later the CO was asked why he stopped firing he replied "WE ran out of bullets sir" ON a side note the general involved was assassinated by an Indian student some years later and the gun was traced back to the IRA. Robin me boy how about the Kenyans who have been given permission by your high court(recently) to sue the British government for torture, or maybe you forget that concentration camps were invented by the British during the Boer war. Fix your own mess you self righteous hypocrite.

• RobinForester | Feb 25, 2013, 12:45 AM EST

  Curtis quote> What on earth are you talking about with this phony indignance? Curtis you've gone unchallenged for too long, I have listed for you a number of sad events in US history which you shrugged of - even though these events included those listed in the excellent book ''Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee', which described the Red Indian Massacres, I also included the KKK Klan, the infamous attacks on the Black Civil Rights movement (Re: Dr Martin Luther King) I pointed out the USAAF had bombed Dresden, and in my post below I have listed for you a few of the 2000 USA riots that have occurred. It needs to be said that in the prison riots mentioned below the prisoners 'were unarmed and some were shot in the back', surprisingly the NY Orange Riots were an identical copy of the Londonderry Black Sunday riots, 60 USA citizens were shot by US troops as compared to the 13 shot in Derry. One needs to ask why are you so selective in your posts and so irrationally anti-British. My arguments prove the British record on controlling civil disturbances is clearly so much better than the USA? and this is a fact.

• RobinForester | Feb 25, 2013, 12:22 AM EST

  Curtis, are you aware the USA has the worst civil riot and disturbance record of any major nation, over 2000 riots have occurred which illustrates I hope how absurd your recent arguments have been: (Viz) The Orange riots in New York involved violent conflict between Irish Protestants and Catholics, This riot caused the deaths of over 60 civilians – mostly Irish laborers – and three Guardsmen. Meridian race riot 1871, by the time federal troops arrived about thirty black people had been killed. Atlanta Race Riot was a mass civil disturbance in which 38 people died and 537 injured. Detroit Race Riot, 34 killed, 433 wounded, and destroying property valued at $2 million. Little Rock School Riots. The Watts Riot LA resulted in 34 deaths, 1,032 injuries, 3,438 arrests, and over $40 million in property damage. The Kent State shootings. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, New Mexico Prison Riot, 33 inmates died and more than 200 inmates were treated for injuries. The Attica Prison riot, 39 people dead. The Rodney King Riots, 53 people killed during the riots and over two thousand people were injured. The Vietnam War riots are far too numerous to list. I think you owe the British people an apology and ask will it be forthcoming.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 09:04 PM EST

  RF – “Most Brits are opposed to uncontrolled immigration and wish to see this stopped.” So what? My point is that the commercial oligarchy that runs your “nation” does not.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 07:46 PM EST

  Ireland North – “All responsibility for what subsequently transpired lay with Lt Col Derek Wilford, Office Commanding said unit, to whom such arbitray power was delegated by an elected British Executive. Wilford was subsequently promoted to aid-de-camp to HM EIIR” Says all you need to know about the british state – this psychopath was promoted to the highest levels for successfully orchestrating the massa cre of civil rights protesters.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 07:44 PM EST

  “Curtis, how dare you criticize us, you being an American does these few words not shame you to your core” What on earth are you talking about with this phony indignance?

• RobinForester | Feb 24, 2013, 02:55 PM EST

  Curtis Quote> The site isn't allowing my full post but Dresden was planned and primarily executed by the British – the US was largely innocent. How on earth can this be innocent. ''527 aircraft of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city of Dresden? Maybe we should inform him that the oldest USA prison is in Taunton, England, Facts> Between mid-1942 and September 1945, the prison was used by the American military as the "6833rd Guardhouse Overhead Detachment", later "The Headquarters 2912th Disciplinary Training Center — APO 508 United States Army". The prison was entirely staffed by American military personnel during this period. The first Commandant was Lt Colonel James P. Smith of the 707th Military Police Battalion. At times during its use by the Americans, Shepton Mallet held many more men than it had ever held before. At the end of 1944, there were 768 soldiers imprisoned, guarded by 12 officers and 82 enlisted men. [edit]American military executions Under the provisions of the United States of America (Visiting Forces) Act 1942, a total of eighteen American servicemen were executed within the prison walls. Sixteen were hanged in the execution block and two were shot by firing squad in the prison yard.

• RobinForester | Feb 24, 2013, 02:44 PM EST

  Curtis, how dare you criticize us, you being an American does these few words not shame you to your core: Wounded Knee, the Black Hills Dakota trespass, Custers attack, the California massacres of the Chinese, the KKK, the lynching of Blacks, the lynching of Leo Frank, the acquittal of O J Simpson, and the reprieve of Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb. And what about the Mi Lai Massacre, or the fire bombing of Tokyo followed by Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Do you know what the Battle of the Bulge was about, it was the refusal of USA troops to move forward and engage the enemy thereby creating the ‘bulge’ which gave this event it’s name. My father in law could speak German, he guarded German POW en-route to NY / Canada, ,the tales he was told about American troops by them would silence you for the next 20 years. The writer as visited 39 US States, and is Pro-American.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 24, 2013, 02:29 PM EST

  The immediate responsibility for deploying elements of the British Army's 1 Parachute Regiment on the streets of Derry, Ulster/Northern Ireland lay with the British Government of the day. Subsequently. All responsibility for what subsequently transpired lay with Lt Col Derek Wilford, Office Commanding said unit, to whom such arbitray power was delegated by an elected British Executive. Wilford was subsequently promoted to aid-de-camp to HM EIIR. What conclusions were Irish nationalists and republicans to draw from that? To her credit, at least, she came as close to apologising for that in her speech from Dublin Castle, 2011. The only reason one has to continually revisit this is the extent to which others are in denial of it. Can we move on, please.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 12:08 PM EST

  Contary to RF's fabrications, here is what the british government has admitted about the day - "The firing by soldiers of one (paratrooper) on Bloody Sunday caused the deaths of 13 people and injury to a similar number, NONE OF WHOM WAS POSING A THREAT of causing death or serious injury . . . ." “[T]he immediate responsibility for the deaths and injuries on Bloody Sunday lies with those members of Support Company whose unjustifiable firing was the cause of those deaths and injuries." “All the soldiers who in our view were responsible for the casualties on Bloody Sunday sought to justify their shooting on the grounds that they were sure when they fired that they had targeted and hit someone who was armed with a firearm or a nail or petrol bomb...which they had not”

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 11:59 AM EST

  Why would a soviet mole or communist criticize the Dresden bomb ing – this is just idiotic. I oppose Communism and Marxism and all other doctrines rooted purely in materialism. “Funny how you’re so bitter and obsessed with another country’s history with which you have only tenuous links at best while your own countries history is littered with similar events” What does this even mean?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 24, 2013, 11:58 AM EST

  The site isn't allowing my full post but Dresden was planned and primarily executed by the british – the US was largely innocent. The targeting was of the non-industrialized urban areas to maximize civilian casualties rather than where the primary industrial targets were concentrated

• RobinForester | Feb 24, 2013, 05:23 AM EST

  Curtis, I notice 'Scouse Tony' states your one of our American cousins, So in view of this it might be best if you read this before shouting about the bombing of Dresden: DRESDEN. 527 aircraft of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city. The resulting firestorm destroyed fifteen square miles of the city centre. At most 25,000 people were killed. Post-war discussion of whether or not the attacks were justified has led to the bombing becoming one of the moral causes célèbres of the war. A 1953 United States Air Force report defended the operation as the justified bombing of a military and industrial target, which was a major rail transportation and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort. Curtis, your not a US traitor are you, or a Soviet mole?

• RobinForester | Feb 24, 2013, 05:12 AM EST

  Curtis, is beginning to mellow, he's just made two posts in which he's not called me a Brit-Troll. Is he an Aussie? As for the bombing of Dresden, what he fails to mention is Hitler and is friend 'Lipstick' (Goering) wanted to teach us a lesson so they had the Luftwaffe bomb York, Canterbury and Bath, so we hit Dresden. Most Brits are opposed to uncontrolled immigration and wish to see this stopped. I'm now wondering if Curtis like G Adams is another disenchanted former Communist Party Worker? The Commies have been keeping the Red Flag flying over Belfast for years and no one seems to have tippled, a main plank in the Communist creed is ‘All people are expendable? As for 'seanomelb', the poor man he thinks buying a new pair of step ladders to do the windows is an achievement in life! (PS: Did Dublin council go down the trading estate route and it failed, and why?)

• Scouse Tony | Feb 24, 2013, 03:12 AM EST

  CurtisJohnson, Funny how you’re so bitter and obsessed with another country’s history with which you have only tenuous links at best while your own countries history is littered with similar events or maybe it’s more comfortable for you to look across an ocean for something to wring your hands about. By the way, if you look up the bombing of Dresden you will see why as an American your reference was flawed.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 23, 2013, 06:50 PM EST

  @RF“Would you invest in Ireland, buy an house there, or go there for an holiday.” You realize that the debt of your own terror state was just downgraded and they continue to import cheap labor to replace you? Seems things aren’t so great there either. The anglo-oriented Dublin vision of industrial estate/real estate bubble Ireland was a colossal failure. “I didn't know some members of the N.I population were so bitter and downcast.” That’s what happens when you create a violent supremacist statelet.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 23, 2013, 06:40 PM EST

  @RF - “I do not accept British Solidiers would fire indicriminatly into fleeing crowds” This is comedy gold. Do you accept that they rape, torture, and harass non-combatants or are you just disputing that they murder them indiscriminately? How about intentionally bombing Dresden, a target which had no military value, to maximize civilian casualties? The numerous massacres of Indian civilians during peaceful protests? Your bizarre fabrications of what happened at Bloody Sunday don’t even match the official accounts of your own terror state. Do you accept that they shot people coming to the aid of the wounded – do you think the photographs and forensic evidence of this have been fabricated?

• seanomelb | Feb 23, 2013, 05:42 PM EST

  Save your British bulldog tears Robin we do not need your false solace or your inept reasoning.

• RobinForester | Feb 23, 2013, 05:17 PM EST

  Yes, but when does all this raking up of dead cinders stop. Read the last 50 posts not one contains any constructive advice or even an hint of DIY social improvement or self-help-enterprise. I didn't know some members of the N.I population were so bitter and downcast. This could be an alibi to explain matters in a better light that they now regret, or a simply an exaggerated myth that's grown over the years from little acorns of discontent. What is certain is you have convinced me that there's no future for Ireland and N.I. I once spoke to someone running a petrol station in the most miserable place in the USA, Tonopah, Central Nevada, she was more happier than you lot, and the same with factory workers I met in a fish canning factory in Cape Town during the mid-1970s apartheid period. What needs to be asked is: Would you invest in Ireland, buy an house there, or go there for an holiday. I suspect the troubles have done more damage than people think, and all apart from Doloros Ruth (a greyhound trainer) and your leading jockeys and horse trainers and heading for the door. I am truly sorry and regret this is so.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 23, 2013, 02:28 PM EST

  British rule in Ireland has been very much of the nature of an abusive domestic relationship, with John Bull (ie England) abusing, controlling and manipulating Caitlín Ní Houlihán (ie Ireland). And then wonders, when he sobers up, why she wants to leave, and promises to get treatment to keep her on board - but never quite does. The constitutional sleight-of-hand called the Act of Union, 1800/'01 was never anything more than a gunshot wedding after the bride had been raped. And the Anglo-Irish Treaty and Government of Ireland Act, 1920 a judicial seperation. With the father getting custody of the children.

• RobinForester | Feb 23, 2013, 04:33 AM EST

  During my bouts of recent reading the person who impressed me the most was 'Arthur Griffith', a Dublin Newspaper Editor, and an earlier 1839 organisation called The Young Ireland league (k/as Young Irelander) jointly and severally these two had outlined in great detail the future for Ireland in a careful and lawful abiding way which in the mid-1920s period led to a 65% vote for Sinn Feinn. (Our thing / Oursleves) What needs to be said is the Orange Order was virtually wiped out and scored 6.5% of the votes cast in N.I. so one must ask what went wrong, these men had a United Ireland in their grasp, a deal was on the table, admittedly it was still to be part of the British Isles family, but it was never-the-less an Ireland run by Irishmen with no great interference from England. So this suggests was De Valera the fool who blocked the proposals and scuppered it?

• RobinForester | Feb 23, 2013, 03:34 AM EST

  I do not accept British Solidiers would fire indicriminatly into fleeing crowds, I do accept many of those killed were shot in the back so what must have occurred is the 'trouble makers' saw the rifle being aimed 'AT HIM' turned and fled but it was too late. I see no one's addressed the issue of whether throwing things at the Police and Soldiers is wise thing, or the 21 year old McGuinness being 'second in charge' (How old was the IRA General 22?) It sounds like children leading hyped up children to their deaths, your brothers, and as I said earlier they had a duty 'to advise these kids to go home and stay well away. That's what I would have expected and looked for. I was reading up on the IRA last night, and must confess I learnt a lot, and must admit my memories of it are 30 years out-of-date so my apologies on that score.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 22, 2013, 09:55 PM EST

  The one that should be investigated is Ballymurphy. Although the death toll was different, by all accounts it was much worse than Bloody Sunday in several respects.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 22, 2013, 09:11 PM EST

  @pommyforester2 “if there were 10 000 marchers - then why were those 14 shot, and what made them the shoot-to-kill targets” They fired into crowds running from them and hit the most proximate targets. The majority were shot in the back. Their next targets were people who came to the aid of the wounded victims. OVER 100 ROUNDS were fired into fleeing crowds – this is now undisputed, dumbass. Moreover, there were many wounded who weren’t killed.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 22, 2013, 09:08 PM EST

  @pommyforester“[h]as it never occurred to you that England has never removed the work permit entry concession/s for Irish people to live and work in Britain? “ Has it ever occurred to you that the ruling british commercial oligarchy have created a cheap labor project which draws cheap labor from all over the world?

• Mortimer74 | Feb 22, 2013, 07:55 PM EST

  An absolute insult. But more to the point, why are the murderers still walking around free? For sure, their identities are known. Their present age is immaterial - it simply highlights how long the families have had to wait for justice. I am reminded of the case of former SAS sniper Michael Norman, an anonymous witness at the laughable Saville inquiry, found dead from a gunshot in a car in London back in 2005. He was 62 by then.

• seanomelb | Feb 22, 2013, 06:07 PM EST

  Fosters sound logic "No elderly women wer shot" therefore mourdering children is ok. You're p2ssing against the wind Robin and you just keep drying youself off and come back for more. Typical dumb anti Irish brit.

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• IrelandNorth | Feb 22, 2013, 02:14 PM EST

  The ultimate freedom is existential. United States, United Kingdoms and united Ireland's last only 70 yrs approx. But the word of the Lord endures forever. Free your minds. Some men in prison are freer than those outside, because their minds are free. How about the Republic of Me?

• RobinForester | Feb 22, 2013, 04:32 AM EST

  Seamus Pal, in the last 2 hours I've lost 3 posts, I guess on this site you can make just one post then must log out then log back in otherwise it's a waste of time. I have not insulted any of the Black Sunday dead, but have tried to point out the one-sideness-of-this-debate. The question is: if there were 10 000 marchers - then why were those 14 shot, and what made them the shoot-to-kill targets. I can only surmise they were the leading stone throwers or the more active unlikeable protestors. No elderly or women were shot which strongly suggests it-was-the-old-tit-for-tat-at play. I do not agree that at an alleged Peaceful Protest stone throwing, shots, or retaliatory shooting should occur and the organisers should have called it off My views may not be polular on this but they are honest and impartial.

• RobinForester | Feb 22, 2013, 03:55 AM EST

  To all my admirers including the three Puff Adders: As it never occurred to you that England has never removed the work permit entry concession/s for Irish people to live and work in Britain? Why? Do yourselves a favour and take a look at this online magazine: enterprise-ireland.com. This is the modern-day Ireland, the Ireland that needs your support. Irish people of all creeds including IRA members need to be practical and wise, in our part of the world Britain is the major financial and industrial power, so Ireland including N.I must do business with it and preserve this relationship. As for the French (Ref Bobby Sands St) they wouldn't pisxs on Ireland if it was on fire and the same with 7 other European countries, Germany, Spain, Italy etc.

• Scouse Tony | Feb 22, 2013, 01:12 AM EST

  Seanomelb Forced to the negotiating table at the point of an Armalite, of course and it was absolutely nothing to do with the realisation of a failed strategy, failing home and international support and PIRA /S F being compromised to a point where no one was sure who was being paid or played. Some people did rather well for themselves and some seemed to live charmed lives. I doubt what is said now and what comes out in the future will be the same thing, politics is a complex and dirty game.

• Scouse Tony | Feb 22, 2013, 01:11 AM EST

  Curtisjohnson I know street naming is symbolic but I think the French where more interested in having a pop over the inordinate number of UK place names with Waterloo or Wellington in them, I visited the one in Paris ( Saint Denis) and was a bit underwhelmed, if you haven’t been there it isn’t what you might expect . As for the idea of the British being driven nuts by a name change in Tehran you would have to find one who knows: who Bobby Sands was, who Churchill was, where Tehran is and is actually bothered in my experience, they are a bit thin on the ground although it may get a mild hurrumph from the odd Daily Telegraph reader.

• seamus60 | Feb 21, 2013, 09:23 PM EST

  Robin. Trouble came to my door, whether I wanted it or not. My father needed more than chance to get a job, he needed to be non Catholic. How the hell did you ever win all those fights with an attitude like that. I have a good record myself 9 straight knockouts and then I won one. Just before my big brother bought me a pint and warned me to avoid criminal company. Think he was releaved when I opted for the RA. Save a life was hardly what your para`s came to Derry for, yet you have insultedtheir victims who wanted nothing more than justice.

• seanomelb | Feb 21, 2013, 07:40 PM EST

  Micosoft and other modern companies have set up shop in Ireland, of course Robin's anti Irish spite precludes him from naming anything positive about Ireland.Remember Robin the british wer forced to the negotiating table at the point of an Armalite and an aparthied government in the statelet was consigned to history,just as the ANC forced negotiations in South Africa. Maybe you should ponder the terrorist acts perfornmed by your beloved British army in Africa,the middle east and asia. Irish street names are mostly named after Irish heros who fought your terrorist over 800 Yyears. I think you should leave this site with your bloodied nose.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 21, 2013, 07:18 PM EST

  seamus60 - “You should take a walk down Bobby Sands street if you`re ever in Paris, Parisians are very proud of brave Bobby.” LOL – There are several cities in France with streets named after Bobby Sands - Nantes, Saint-Étienne, Le Mans, Vierzon, anSaint-Denis. Iran renamed Winston Churchill Boulevard, the location of the British Embassy [!], to Bobby Sands Street (labeled in both english and farsi). This has to drive the brit patriotards nuts.

• RobinForester | Feb 21, 2013, 03:33 PM EST

  Seamus, if I told you my background you'd not believe it. It did include sleeping in parks, cemetaries, picking strawberries, working for a farmer and fighting. I had 13 amateur fights and won them all. Later I moved and saw how the rich and super rich lived and compared this to how the poor lived. I soon sussed out it had nothing to do with education but to chance, luck and work dedication. People criticise the rich but the great majority have enough good common-sense not to go to gaol, to obey the law, and to avoid criminal associates. I copied them. What I'm getting at in a nice way is: If you were my brother you'd ask me 'If you can join the f-library' never mind the Provos, and I'd snatch a pint out of your hand and throw it on the ground and slowly but surely you'd get the message "Trouble Stay Away From My Door". Y-not see life this way - we have 26500 days on this earth so let them be happy ones. And if you can save a life, a hurt, an injury do so, and remember that old classic "Buddy can you spare a dime," thats the anthem of the poor? Regards,

• seamus60 | Feb 21, 2013, 02:02 PM EST

  Robin. Feel free to back track. The conversation is allowed to fold back on itself when nessacery. Why do you send me sympathy for something I am proud of ? My wife and family are Republicans and there fore had no problem either.Sorry to hear your uncle couldn`t read or write, but you can hardly use that excuse for his visits to HMP. My uncle was the same but never spent a day at her majestys pleasure and raised a very large family who lived in a house filled with love. You should take a walk down Bobby Sands street if you`re ever in Paris, Parisians are very proud of brave Bobby.

• RobinForester | Feb 21, 2013, 01:22 PM EST

  Seamus, I wrote you two replies but they both dissapeared into 'Your message will appear shortly land', and neither did. They don't matter as 'the conversation's moved on'. Please accpet I sent my sympathy for your recruitment into the Provos, and afterwards wondered how this had affected your wife, children and family. I had an uncle who could not contain his temper and was often sent for his holidays to HMP Armley or HMP Durham. suffice to say he could not read or write, and his family was shattered and living on their nerves throughout their early life. I will add once more the ballet box beats the gun, and a good man gets universities, hospital wings and streets named after him? Please accept that in normal life those you think are your friends are are no such thing and when your living in a place like Armagh this matters 100 fold. Best wishes.

• seamus60 | Feb 21, 2013, 12:50 PM EST

  Brit Robin likes asking questions but don`t like answering them.

• RobinForester | Feb 21, 2013, 06:16 AM EST

  Brit Robin asks a question: Which IRA leader (sic) gave the order to bomb Belfast? and, was he unaware 'it was on their side and an Irish City? This question must go to the very root of the alleged Irish Nationlism debate?

• RobinForester | Feb 21, 2013, 05:20 AM EST

  Boyos: Your going to have to face hard facts such as, the Salvation Army got more members than the IRA, the IRA got no real support nad is shunned and ignored by the majority of Catholics, that people want peace, jobs and security. That in Ireland it'self your laughing stocks and outlawed. And here's the sad bit: How many former IRA men are disabled today, crippled maybe and in wheelchairs because of the lunatic BS fed to them that they were freeing N.I from the Brits, as it not occurred to you most Brits don't even know were N.I is? And as for the famine and the other social problems 'they would answer we had it just as bad, if not worse'. The only problem that concerns me is how to get Ireland back on it's feet, you lot with your pre-historics sentiments do not have a clue, as Adam ever fought to get a Korean Shipyard Company over here to start making Lego-Ships, has anyone approached Ford and asked for a new car plant, or the Chinese and said 'Make N.I your foothold into Europe, what about JCB, Colgate, Marshalls Paving, etc, nope all you've done is sat, and other nations have moved in and captured markets N.I and Eire should have had, So hang your heads with shame,

• seanomelb | Feb 20, 2013, 10:54 PM EST

  I wonder if Brit Robin is aware when thatcher used The IRA campaign to install her offences against the state act the first to feel its wrought was striking miners and dock workers

• curtisjohnson | Feb 20, 2013, 08:33 PM EST

  Really sloppy and cartoonish trolling from this british patriotard. Not to worry, Robin, the british terror state is slowly beginning to deploy the tactics it tried to perfect in the occupied statelet against mainland british “citizens.” Then maybe you will be able to enjoy all those high priced lawyers falling all over themselves to represent you – they better be good because your case will be decided by a single Judge (forget about juries) who can used your tortured confession against you. Thankfully, your own state has decided to begin replacing your population.

• seanomelb | Feb 20, 2013, 07:20 PM EST

  Robin the englishman telling the Irish how to suck eggs what typical British imperial arrrogance

• seanomelb | Feb 20, 2013, 07:10 PM EST

  Firstly Robin my dear chap the total who died during the war of liberation was 3600 and you attribute all deaths to republicans. after 1972 and as a US president I would send more aramalites to the Irish to defend themselves from British terror And as Taoiseach I would have given my imprimatur to Captain Kelly(that is if you know about the incident) in question. I would also have given more Arms to the free state ministers who were accused of giving arms to the freedom fighters. I make no apologies to anti Irish ignorant people like yourself. Keep up your silly fictional rantings you only make a mockery of yourself. Or crawl back into your trailer with a bottle of JD anyhow who cares.

• seamus60 | Feb 20, 2013, 01:07 PM EST

  Robin. As with how many actual IRA men had been interned on Bloody Sunday we are at the mercy of some one picking numbers out of the clouds. I don`t mind your or anyone elses figures as in Ireland they have quite a habit of deserving little relevance. After all the PIRA operated and still do with numbers fluxuating above and below that you have mentioned. The majority of people in Ireland have always been against violent struggle. The biggest threat to the IRA today is from those so called Republicans who have accepted the 30 pieces, as they continue to play ball with the brits in attempting to discredit all Republicans who do not share their view. I am against armed struggle at this time, but in the eyes of SF that don`t matter and I get labelled a dissident. I have not desented from anything in my days as a volunteer when the Proclamation was all the guidance I and all other volunteers had to concern ourselves with. For some one (anyone) to believe they have a given right to change that document or any of its contents without all the people of Irelands say so, they may find as much determination as has been there for hundreds of years. Look up "Sunningdale for slow learners" when you get a chance as you`re so adament to blame the IRA for all 3600 deaths during the troubles. Do ye not answer questions yourself ?

• RobinForester | Feb 20, 2013, 12:08 PM EST

  Seamus, The IRA have an estimated 400 active members, plus 400 inactive members. Wiki figures. Stop for a minute to think what this means in terms of political clout? Don't you know The Salvation Armys got more members in N.I than the IRA. I lived in the US for 3 years, here is an example of US church congregations who attend church each week: Second Baptist Church Houston, 25,221, Woodlands Church, Woodlands, TX 18,322. Saddleback Valley Church, Lake Forest, 18,000 members. So if you view the 'the bigger picture', then it must be fairly obvious that the Reverend Gerry Adams and the Very Reverend Martin McGuinness would have (by now) say 250 000 members and not 800. So traditional politics wins hand down. I think these examples indicate the common sense approach to promoting a cause or belief. Think about it? (Freeman) reply: I do not want anyone to die, and advocate all extremists green or orange stay in and watch TV. Peace wins, love wins, men with guns can Pisxs off, Enough's enough,

• seamus60 | Feb 20, 2013, 11:12 AM EST

  Robin . Thank you for the confirmation that english people don`t have to endure bigotted Orange parades through their neighbourhoods. What makes you think that people here should tolerate them ? apart from your Workhouse diet. As for Internment, its your leading millitary figures who have always admitted it to being a total disaster with most locked up having nothing to do with the IRA. Though again it did help recruitment to the same. We still endure Internment today under the guise of licence breechs in some cases whilst trumped up charges in others. Internment by another means has always been here. Now aided by those who once ran the IRA. You must have been very dissappointed at the result of the hillsborough outcome or any other that has shown your beloved legal system for what it can be.

• Freeman | Feb 20, 2013, 10:25 AM EST

  RobinForester! you comment "you are squabbling over a handful" when referring to Irish people murdered by your British army in Ireland.That would suggest to me that you condone the murder of innocent civilians, and that puts you in the same arena as the IRA and the British army, do,nt. you think.?It seems you are suggesting, that it is OK for the British army to murder innocent civilians but it is not ok for the IRA to murder innocent civilians.I would doubt very much, that this would be the expressed view of the majority of British people.

• 6countybrit | Feb 20, 2013, 10:03 AM EST

  What happened on Bloody Sunday?

• RobinForester | Feb 20, 2013, 09:43 AM EST

  I found this article interesting> The long-term objective of the IRA, as expressed in its 'Green Book' - a handbook that every volunteer must study - is the 'establishment of a Democratic Socialist Republic'; the short-term objective is expressed simply as: 'Brits out' The political doctrine that drives the IRA is the concept that it has the right to exercise force to compel the British to withdraw from Northern Ireland. While the IRA would prefer to have the support of public opinion in Ireland, ultimately it operates according to its own agenda, regardless of what the majority of people in Ireland - North and South - feel. Following recent general elections, Sinn Fein had only about 1.5 per cent electoral support in the Republic and about 10 per cent in Northern Ireland, where the majority Protestant population wants to retain the link with the UK. Many Irish critics of the IRA say the organization should draw an obvious conclusion: that it does not have a mandate for violence.

• RobinForester | Feb 20, 2013, 09:25 AM EST

  Seamus: Your delayed posts showed today. My reply is: As it never occurred to you that the majority of English people do not support the Orange Loyalist Movement and parades at all and we are just as disgusted as you are with them. A point to make here is ''How Come I know this and you don't’? And tell me when did you last see an anti-Irish parade in England. You mention internment, members of the IRA were interned to stop them thinking they had the right to wage a civil war and to detonate car bombs wereever they chose. They were interned to stop the outrages that were occurring daily throughout Northern Island, tell me please what you would do, what you would advocate and would your response be different if you were an FBI officer? Or Dublin based Police Officer. PS: Was Dublin ever bombed by the IRA, as I seem to recall they imprisoned quite a number of IRA men at one time.

• RobinForester | Feb 20, 2013, 06:47 AM EST

  It appears if I don't agree with some posters then I'm the enemy, and in a nutshell that's the IRA mentality at work and on public display. Many like Seaomeld profess intelligence or achievements, but he fails to mention or consider what the USA Government would do to control the IRA, to stop it's acts of intimidation and to restore peace to all it's US States. Would it be correct to say Leavenworth, Folsom and Huntsville Prisons will contain a lot more St Patricks Day celebrants? Please inform us Seanomelb if you were the PM of Ireland, or the President of the USA what YOU would do to protect all citizens from IRA car bombs left in city centres and close to busy shopping malls, tell us SeanM and lets see how you would cope with violence on the streets, 3600 dead is a lot of work for the FBI?

• seanomelb | Feb 19, 2013, 06:02 PM EST

  Brit Robin I hold two passports and neither of them are British I am a self funded retiree. What's your claim to life other than been a spiteful retard.

• RobinForester | Feb 19, 2013, 05:09 PM EST

  Seamus, Reference Internment, if you got interned in N.I. there was always a good reason for it bearing in mind it's a serious offence to plot against the Government or property alone or with others. The reason being is: Lawyers today in England know how to obtain big money 'to get you out of gaol', or 'to sue on your behalf for wrongful arrest or abuse of power'. Modern day Legal Aid stops abuses of law in their track. So you can arrest Mick McMurphy who can't count to 10 or tie his own shoes, but with legal aid the same Mick McMurphy can call on the best brains in the Legal Profession including QC to make the Police and State pay. So injustices are more myth than fact. You mnetion getting beat into the ground, so one must ask how, when, were and what for and by who. Please understand all this is new to me, as you can tell, my views are and always have been '' THE best way to keep out of trouble is NOT to get into it'. Walk away, ignore it, keep quiet, your family must matter to you, as mine do to me, so be sensible remember 'he who walks away - lives to work another day'. Spend a minute or so reading the history of Britain, Google (1) The Workhouse Diet, (2) The Workhouse Rules, all 223 of them, read about the mines, read about a family called Vane Tempest Stewart, which strangely enough were from Ireland, (3) Read Workhouse Punishments, and more friendlier subject the Journal of Tramp Labourers Britain 1830-1900. Times are a ' changing and I regret you and I will not be able to have a night at Derry dog track which used to be a 500 yard fast track. Best wishes Bob.

• Willie Frazer | Feb 19, 2013, 04:49 PM EST

  Ach now even us presbyterians in my BELOVED ULSTER admit that this was murder of innocent ordinary civilians that day by the army.The army ,all them ypung fellas just got nervous and excited and started firing all around them, it was a terrible, terrible thing it put us British people to shame and the whole world is pointing their fingers at us still.

• seamus60 | Feb 19, 2013, 01:59 PM EST

  Robin, Maybe you might have allowed one of your sons out to protest had the other been Interned for no good reason. Hey ye might even had the balls to go out and protest yourself. Not so hard when ye aren`t getting beat into the ground as we were and still are. Only differance being some of our own are now the brit enforcers.

• seamus60 | Feb 19, 2013, 01:29 PM EST

  Robin. As a marcher on Bloody Sunday , the people set out on the march in great spirit and overwhelmed by the turn out of ordinary decent people of all shapes and views. To know whether IRA members were present would not have been easy for most as they did`nt wear a big sign on their back. ( anyway the brits said they had them all Interned ) The IRA were publically asked by the march organisers not to be active in the city on the day of the march so as not to allow anyone an excuse to go overboard. The police chief on the ground was the first to know there was going to be serious trouble, other wise he wouldn`t have sent word to John Hume the night before the march, not to be in attendance at the event. Loyalists were also in a position to say that the para`s were coming to Derry to teach the tags a good lesson. Just as they had in Ballymurphy. The one thing that is beyond doubt, the fact that what the para`s done that day was the best recruitment drive the IRA could have ever dreamed of.

• RobinForester | Feb 19, 2013, 01:21 PM EST

  Evening Seanmor, I thank you for the courtesy of your reply. I have been watching on You Tube films taken on the day, my impression is the march was out of control immediately. Who ever organised it should have mashalled the crowd into a local park or field for safety and made it clear it was being cancelled. You can sense from the army troops, the trucks, the water cannon and pre-erected barricades that trouble was expected. I claim it was for the organiser/s to stop it because it was obvious the crowd of 10 000 was uncontrollable and beginning to riot. At strret barriers you can see N.I. people spitting at soldiers and hurling abuse at them. he organiser's had a duty to ASK THE POLICE for ASSISTANCE and to have them control the crowd. Doing this would have demonstrated their own good faith and bona-fides. The IRA should have been requested to keep away by the Police and the Organisers, it was NOT an IRA affair, so why were they there? If my sons had been killed I would be blaming myself for allowing them to go, I would also accuse the march organizers for negligence (were they insured and have public liability) and I would blame the IRA Provisionals for attending it and made sure they never showed their faces in Derry again. You cannot assert the Republican Army represent your interests then cast the blame else where when a bollocks like this deadly for some march occurs. I would have not allowed my sons to go on this march or to associate with killers and terrorists even if they lived next door to me. These boys were 17, they were not regd marchers or had a vested interest so none must ask did they have the organisers PERMISSION to join this march? And did the older members of the IRA have a duty to warn them to go home and not get involved?

• seamus60 | Feb 19, 2013, 01:11 PM EST

  Robin. St Patrick day events take part all over the world without incident, including Ireland for the reason that those taking part are not parading through other communitys as victors, beating out songs that are highly offensive to others. Nationalist parades will take predetermined routes where they are acceptable and cause least offence. Loyalists on the other hand have over a thousand parades per year with a small percentage contested by Nationalists who don`t want them tramping past their homes playing vile songs. These Nationalists always physically removed from their protest, even though the police say they can not just physically sweap people off the road (ONLY) when they`re loyalist protesters complaining of the flag that you fly on designated days.

• seamus60 | Feb 19, 2013, 12:54 PM EST

  Robin . Your army has terrorised in Ireland for centurys. Your lucky people are even allowed to take to the streets in peacefill protest at whatever, without the fear of being ambushed by armed millitia (B Specials) and loyalist mobs like on Burntollet bridge. Your extremely lucky being allowed to protest in the City Centre as Nationalists were never allowed near it, always phisically prevented by the same mallitia and mobs mentioned above. Replaced by your army who provoked the violence on Bloody Sunday by the same means in preventing a peacefull demonstration.A demonstration calling for the release of hundreds of Nationalists Interned for no reason, something else you`s have the luxury of not being enforced apon you.

• Seanmor | Feb 19, 2013, 09:12 AM EST

  Robin: I do NOT know the answers to your many questions but I'll try to respond just the same. Qour phrasing of these questions seem to suggest that you think the Bloody Sunday parade was largerly, if not entirely an I.R.A. event (as do many others, especially Partitions south of the Irish borde r).In Jan. of 1972 the Provisional I.R.A. were still a fledging organizatioon that came into being largerly becauseNationalists were being treated as second class citizens. The civil rightsparade's chief organizer and overall head was IVAN COOPER, a Protestant politician who campaigned for equality for Nationalists. It appears as though the British Paras sought to deprive the Provos of recruits by shooting dead 7 boys who were only 17 years iold.But the Bloody Sunday killings gave the newly formed provos hundreds of new recruits.

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 11:06 PM EST

  Iwrote this last night before going to bed, these are questions I would like to know the answers to because these answers would educate me to why the Derry Parade turned into a riot. QUESTIONS. What was the state of mind of the 10 000 people who attended the parade in Derry, and did IRA members attend? Who invited the IRA, did the Parade organisers do so, or was this an ‘’IRA event masquerading as a Civil Rights Demonstration’ (or show of power by the IRA in Derry) And who tipped` off the Police that there was going to be serious trouble (or riot) at this parade and in turn which Police Officer asked for British Soldiers to attend? The all important legal issue is: Did the IRA, and / or the leading troublemakers act intentionally to break the law knowing full well the harmful consequences and danger to others of their actions, yet acted anyway because he / they do not care enough about the law to respect it’s commonsense advice and the importance to uphold it at all times?

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 11:03 PM EST

  The last three posters if there were born in N.I, and hold a British Passport, or draw any form of British Government allowances or benefits are, and it needs to be said -'traitors'-. If they look upon this as an honour then they are fools, indirectly by their written words, deeds or acts they shame all decent men, all peaceful men, and all ordinary law abiding citizens who reside in the British Isles, meaning from Wick to Lands End, and N.I. The IRA have killed 3600 people, and your squabbling over an handful, surely it would be more charitable and honest to respect the the memory of the 3600 murdered and not lose sight of the fact that they are your brothers and sisters. If your not a Brit then these words do not apply to you. I should add that you cannot opt out of citizenship and it's attendant rights, your stuck with them from birth to the grave, though you can I understand, hand in your passport with a signed covering letter why you are doing this. The last three posters are Curtis, Seanomelb and Warrenpoint, so are they prepared to hand in their passports and say Goodbye?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 18, 2013, 08:07 PM EST

  “they are not terrorists they are British soldiers” A full endorsement from Robinforester of the conduct of these “soldiers” – the cold, calculated murder of children and other non-combatants, the sexual torture and mutilation of prisoners in Kenya, mass rape, half hangings, the pitch and cap, shouting sexual slurs at minors, bombing indigenous populations with chemical weapons etc. You could make a game of it – I name and deed and you name the guilty party among the following: Mongols, Nazis, british.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 18, 2013, 08:06 PM EST

  Robinforester just invents random strawmen in her brit troll fantasy world. The british aren’t a race so your charge of racis m is somewhat curious. It should be noted in many of the incidents that had been referenced the british authorities were warned and purposely did nothing in the hopes there would be civilian damages for propaganda purposes. “My own personal thoughts are the girl swore at the Solider, so he shot her dead,” Since your dishonoring the memory of a child murdered in cold blood, I assume you have some facts to support this other than rank speculation you disgusting troll?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 18, 2013, 08:05 PM EST

  Robinforester just invents random strawmen in her brit troll fantasy world. The british aren’t a race so your charge of racism is somewhat curious. It should be noted in many of the incidents that had been referenced the british authorities were warned and purposely did nothing in the hopes there would be civilian damages for propaganda purposes. “My own personal thoughts are the girl swore at the Solider, so he shot her dead,” Since your dishonoring the memory of a child murdered in cold blood, I assume you have some facts to support this other than rank speculation you disgusting troll?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 18, 2013, 08:04 PM EST

  “they are not terrorists they are British soldiers” A full endorsement from Robinforester of the conduct of these “soldiers” – the cold, calculated murder of children and other non-combatants, the sexual torture and mutilation of prisoners in Kenya, mass rape, half hangings, the pitch and cap, shouting sexual slurs at minors, bombing indigenous populations with chemical weapons etc. You could make a game of it – I name and deed and you name the guilty party among the following: Mongols, Nazis, british.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 18, 2013, 07:58 PM EST

  Robinforester just invents random strawmen in her brit troll fantasy world. The british aren’t a race so your charge of racism is somewhat curious. It should be noted in many of the incidents that had been referenced the british authorities were warned and purposely did nothing in the hopes there would be civilian damages for propaganda purposes. “My own personal thoughts are the girl swore at the Solider, so he shot her dead,” Since your dishonoring the memory of a child murdered in cold blood, I assume you have some facts to support this other than rank speculation you disgusting troll?

• seanomelb | Feb 18, 2013, 06:57 PM EST

  What do you call soldiers who kill children and women Robin heros. You are a flawed human being and a dog ignorant apologist for British war crimes

• warrenpoint00 | Feb 18, 2013, 06:35 PM EST

  Murderers they are Robin, the british soldiers that terrorized the people of Derry and indeed many other Irish nationalist enclaves during that terrible period of british oppression in Ireland.Your government has already started proceedings, against these murderers that brought so much disgrace to your already disgraced british army,Robin mate.Of course some of your british army boys went on to rape and sodomize men, boys and women in Afghanistan during their brutal oppression of that country as well ,Robin mate.Some things british, never change Robin, sorry mate but it is true.

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 04:54 PM EST

  Seamus, they are not terrorists they are British soldiers, If you call them terrorists, both others and I get confused because we think you mean you mean the IRA. The question is: ‘why can't NI have a peaceful protest march. In my hometown we have at least 4 sizable marches a year, they have a walk around the town centre, wave a few placards, knock off at 12 noon and all head to the pub, arrests 0, Police injuries 0. crowd injuries 0, that’s the democratic way. A good example of the community spirit in England is the St Patrick Day marches, and the hundreds of pubs which hold Irish nights, then we have the St Corpus Christi parades, Protestant women and children used to go to see the girls ‘all dressed up’. I can remember 50 years ago the Catholic girls from across the way visiting the neighbour’s so they could see how pretty they looked, why is it that N.I. Catholics seem to forget that these annual events happen in England?

• maireadinmelb | Feb 18, 2013, 04:30 PM EST

  so why do you then not take the word of the Saville inquiry if you take the word of other british inquiries- why do you treat bloody sunday so different?

• seamus60 | Feb 18, 2013, 03:21 PM EST

  Robin you display confusion in relation to the terrorists who Murdered Fourteen people on the streets of my home City. Can we not safely say they were murdered and call for prosecutions for all involved in the cover up as well. More logical than atempting to justify in any way what and why it happened on the day.

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 10:40 AM EST

  Seamus, Please don't attribute your thoughts to me or fill in gaps, when I say terrorists I mean all terrorists blue, black, brown,, white yellow and in this example your Green, get rid off the lot, the days of the bully boys is over, this applies to Poilcemen, corrupt officials, and soldiers. Can't understand your bit about Paul Quinn, the lad was murdered, if we agree on that, then I hope we would both want to see his killers all 15 at the end of a rope. Sadly that will never happen because a barm'pot called Willie Whitelaw MP stopped hanging in the UK, which as you must know saved Hindley, Brady and Sutcliffe.

• seamus60 | Feb 18, 2013, 06:45 AM EST

  So Robin the people you call terrorists are entitled to be tracked down and brought before the courts whilst others are exempt from the same. Why would that be ? As for the MURDER of Paul Quinn I wouldn`t be calling it that had I not wished the criminals who took his life be caught and brought to justice.

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 06:30 AM EST

  Mairhead: I was unaware she had been shot twice in the back, the soldier was tried in Court and aquitted, Here's some additional facts: The victim as she walked past the checkpoint in a country lane near Whitecross on her way to confession in her local church on August 14th, 1976. The letter signed by Defence Secretary Liam Fox said he was “shocked and saddened” to read the full account of what happened and apologised for the death. According to Mr O’Hare, the letter said the possibility of terrorist involvement was unlikely. He added: “It was an event that happened between the Army and Majella and unfortunately it caused her death.” A soldier accused of the killing claimed he fired in response to an IRA sniper attack. He was acquitted. An inquiry by the Historical Enquiries Team (HET) of detectives said there was no evidence to suggest there had ever been an IRA gunman (....I've added to make it clearer, ''in the area or about'')

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 05:54 AM EST

  Mairead: My own personal thoughts are the girl swore at the Solider, so he shot her dead, She was murdered, I am sorry, and do not condone this, he was not a sniper at all, nor was she shot in the head. Here are some facts: On the 14th August, 1976, just seven minutes before noon, soldiers of the Third Parachute Regiment shot dead a twelve-year-old County Armagh girl while on her way to Confessions at the local chapel, St. Malachy’s, Ballymoyer, near Whitecross in crossfire between the IRA and the British Army. Sir Maurice Gibson PC (1 May 1913 - 27 April 1987) was a Lord Justice of Appeal in Northern Ireland, he was killed, along with his wife Cecily, Lady Gibson, during an attack by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA). In 1977 he acquitted the soldier who shot Majella O'Hare, a 12 year old girl. The UK government recently apologised for this killing and said the justification he accepted was "unlikely’’. He and his wife were killed by a remote-controlled car bomb as they drove over the Irish Border back into Northern Ireland on 27 April 1987 after a holiday. As the judge's car reached the border, he stopped to shake hands with the Garda security escort who had completed their part of the assignment. The couple had only a short drive to meet the RUC escort to Belfast. Between the two points lay the bomb. The explosion threw the Gibson's vehicle across the road, killing the couple immediately. The explosion also injured Ireland national rugby union team players Nigel Carr, David Irwin andPhilip Rainey who were in a car on the same road. Tit-for-tat killings must stop:

• maireadinmelb | Feb 18, 2013, 03:52 AM EST

  Robinforester, - Explain or justify the death of 12 year old Majella O'Hare? Walking into a church with other children. I shot from a sniper in her head by a British soldier who was never charged! You do not defeat what you call a terrorist when you enable your soldiers to become terrorists!! I believe it was your Mrs Thatcher who said "A crime is a crime is a crime" it seems that only applies to crimes against her majesty's forces and LOYAL citizens not the entire population!!

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 12:11 AM EST

  So at the end of the day what we have is a small group of people infected with racist hate for the Brits, and willing to be blinded by it in some mistaken belief they are acting as ''good people and staunch Irish Nationalists''. May I add that I do not admire the Orange men and am revolted by their parades and attitude towards others? But having said that the IRA are worse and please God will stop pretending to be Irish, or lovers of all things Irish. What bothers me is if a Prime Minister of Ireland is elected who will carryout the reforms needed to make Ireland GREAT, the poor man will be assassinated the moment he reveals his plans and aspirations. When I said you couldn’t have underground or militant societies challenging the State I meant both the Orange Order and the IRA, I also meant all lawbreakers and killers posing as nationalists. I also meant arresting those horrible people who screamed and shouted at catholic children on the way to school. Only an Irish racist would think otherwise. For what it's worth the USA laws and citizens support my majority view, and one must ask would the USA tolerate the IRA for one moment.

• RobinForester | Feb 18, 2013, 12:07 AM EST

  What a ragbag of 'ideas' to have to answer, several so full of hate and prejudice that it would be impossible. One man thinks leaving a car full of explosives in the middle of Belfast so passers-by will get killed is politics and tactics but fails to address the un-raised questions (a) ''Is it a good tactic'' (b) ''Is it murder most foul'' (c) '' What good did it do'' (e) Was it good publicity for a cause or creed'' and most important (f) Did it advance or improve Ireland image at home or abroad''. You then have as an under thread the issue of the British Government whose falsely painted as an offshoot of Reinhardt Heydrich SS in order for terrorists and their fawning admirers to explain their own criminal acts. Seamus mentions the murder of Paul Quinn (RIP) (killed in a cowshed by 15 men with iron bars) but is neither sympathetic or concerned (a) he fails to add the killers should have been hung (b) that it was everyone duty to ensure they were arrested (c) he dismisses by not mentioning it Paul Quinn right as a human being and an IRISHMAN. I excuse -''Scouse Tony''- from any remarks made here.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 17, 2013, 09:45 PM EST

  “When you start apologising for terrorist acts where do you stop or what do you deem acceptable, the only difference between a Bloody Friday and 9/11 becomes basically politics and tactic” This sentence and the 911 comparison are so utterly absurd it eradicates any sliver of credibility. The targets of the IRA bombing campaign, including Bloody Friday, were primarily economic and military/security forces. No one is disputing the wrongness of civilian deaths or “apologizing” for anything. There is a massive moral difference in terms of the activities of the british government and their loyalist proxies is purposely targeting indigenous civilians – as confirmed in the O’Loan report. This doesn’t even begin to broach their worldwide slaughter, torture, rape; mutilation, etc. – for severity and duration unparalleled in history. The IRA are mere choir boys compared to the british government.

• Scouse Tony | Feb 17, 2013, 09:13 PM EST

  To say the IRA almost never targeted innocent civilians is naïve and factually incorrect as suggesting that the security forces acted appropriately at all times , off the top of my head Claudy, Bloody Friday, Harrods, Oxford Street, Victoria Station, The Baltic Exchange, Bishops Gate, Birmingham, Guilford, Enniskillen and Warrington, yes almost never seems a bit thin. When you start apologising for terrorist acts where do you stop or what do you deem acceptable, the only difference between a Bloody Friday and 9/11 becomes basically politics and tactic. Looking through the comments I would suggest some people need to actually read the Saville Report before pontificating as I can see some factually incorrect assertions stated as fact which are contradicted within the body of the report. Americans who wish to criticise the initial compensation offer need to remember that the US governments current rate for non-combatant or civilian deaths in Afghanistan is $50.000 however if you want to go back over forty years how much was paid for the events of 16/04/68.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 17, 2013, 06:54 PM EST

  “If you view Ireland with love and affection, then you must arrive at the conclusion that it cannot have 'Secret Society's', or a so called 'Underground Militant Society'. You mean like the orange order – an organization set up with the express intention of repressing the indigenous population (originally also the “Ulster Scots” but they were eventually assumed into it when their numbers were needed). How about official government security forces and agencies explicitly murdering and oppressing the population under the auspices of the law. For the record over the years 250 000 Brit troops served in Northern Ireland, and only a very small number committed crimes, whilst the IRA have killed an estimated 3600 fellow citizens. What a disgusting falsehood – none of them were “convicted” of crimes but the vast majority of them harassed and humiliated the indigenous population even if not all of them murdered someone. The british terror state covered up or simply did not prosecute any crimes by its terror forces on the ground. Moreover, the government and loyalist actively targeted civilian non-combatants whereas the IRA almost never did. “Is it right to take sides or to ignore the law of the land. “ The laws and state forces in Ireland existed for the primary purpose of repressing the indigenous population. Did the penal laws have moral authority? Did the Third Reich’s laws have binding moral authority? Should the Nazis have been convicted at Nuremberg? Was it immoral for Jews to resist the holocaust or black South Africans to resist apartheid?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 17, 2013, 06:53 PM EST

  @RobinForester, cont. “If you view Ireland with love and affection, then you must arrive at the conclusion that it cannot have 'Secret Society's', or a so called 'Underground Militant Society'. You mean like the orange order – an organization set up with the express intention of repressing the indigenous population (originally also the “Ulster Scots” but they were eventually assumed into it when their numbers were needed). How about official government security forces and agencies explicitly murdering and oppressing the population under the auspices of the law. For the record over the years 250 000 Brit troops served in Northern Ireland, and only a very small number committed crimes, whilst the IRA have killed an estimated 3600 fellow citizens. What a disgusting falsehood – none of them were “convicted” of crimes but the vast majority of them harassed and humiliated the indigenous population even if not all of them murdered someone. The british terror state covered up or simply did not prosecute any crimes by its terror forces on the ground. Moreover, the government and loyalist actively targeted civilian non-combatants whereas the IRA almost never did. “Is it right to take sides or to ignore the law of the land. “ The laws and state forces in Ireland existed for the primary purpose of repressing the indigenous population. Did the penal laws have moral authority? Did the Third Reich’s laws have binding moral authority? Should the Nazis have been convicted at Nuremberg? Was it immoral for Jews to resist the holocaust or black South African’s to resist apartheid?

• curtisjohnson | Feb 17, 2013, 06:51 PM EST

  Not sure that I should even bother, but let me try to address some of the spastic brit propaganda spouted by RobinForester. “Many of your remarks are damaging to Ireland interests. Many of you forget that visitors, tourists and worst of all top businessmen deserted Northern Ireland from 1970 onwards.” South Africa was deserted by many tourist and businessmen when it was a supremacist state – so what? The violence was initiated by the bigoted planters and the british security state in response to the Catholic request for civil rights – the reincarnation of the IRA was a response to state violence against the indigenous community. “Are we supposed to forget that on the day of the riot it was alleged that Martin McGuinness was carrying a Thompson sub machine gun?” This is the one bone the inquiry threw to the british terror state and it is very questionable – he has continued to deny it and it would be totally non-sensical for the IRA to have armed machine gunners at a civil rights protest. Moreover, he wasn’t a victim of british murder – the people they shot were mowed down methodically – one waving a white flag and tried to attend to the wounded. “I have never had a parking ticket for over 30 years, never speeded, never had a -'pint'- If anyone is repressed I am, I'll book myself into the Shelbourne Park hotel, have a night at the dogs and a drive out to Cork.” And what crimes were the civil rights protesters murdered by the british that day convicted of?

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 06:26 PM EST

  Robin. Because some one is a trading partner or anything else you don`t let them shyte all over you. As for worked to the bone imigrant ancestors, if they were`nt required they would not have been allowed near the place to be treated as above. You should read up on some basic facts too, if you want to be taken seriously. To say that the IRA killed everyone in the troubles is more than a tad unfair. The murder of Paul Quinn was just that, MURDER by criminals maskerading as Republicans, something they had been doing for quite a long time.

• seanomelb | Feb 17, 2013, 05:52 PM EST

  Lets cut to the chase here!! RobinForester is anti Irish and a British apologist. His twist on Irish history is just that!! twistedand do ignorant.

• seanomelb | Feb 17, 2013, 05:52 PM EST

  Lets cut to the chase here!! RobinForester is anti Irish and a British apologist. His twist on Irish history is just that!! twistedand do ignorant.

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 05:30 PM EST

  Seamus, both of us are all over the place, I am trying to address several issues and pointing out it's all well and good calling the Brits, but look at the facts they are Ireland number 1 trading partner, and a valuable supporter of Ireland including Ireland emigrant job market (thank God for that) I'm a Brit of Irish ancestry but I am English and want to set the record straight in a fair way. As for my dad wasn't he a product of born 1896, died 1963 North East England? Did it not make you think of Irish men, or men from Glesca or Liverpool and feel sorry for them all. And one of those rabbits I swopped a bike for, it was a Belgium Flemish Giant, I meant lets drop the 'N.I troubles past', and move on and you know I did, PS: So what was your view on the kids killing? poor lad.

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 05:22 PM EST

  Anglo. There appears to be a differance in murders, considering that when an IRA man or even a totally inocent catholic is accused of it, he is very likely to go to prison for a very long time. With the other so called murder bringing nothing but praise of bravery and glory. With the biggest threat being personal injury from the pin of their MEDAL. The families (apart from one) have only been informed that their beloved were inocent of wrong doing, that would have justified the end result. Something the whole world has known for 40 years. most will be deceased themselves before justice will ever see the light of day.

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 04:53 PM EST

  Robin. Can`t keep up as you`re all over the place. How have you gotten from the inocent of Bloody Sunday having no one to blame but themselves to what the shinners henchmen done to young Paul in that cow shed in Armagh? Your dad won`t be too happy you`re still spouting on about those rabbits and pigeons and his drinking habits, whilst telling everyone else to drop their past.

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 04:29 PM EST

  Is it right to take sides or to ignore the law of the land. No member of the IRA should have guns or be allowed to kill others no matter what the provocation or cause. On Tuesday coming McGuinness is revealing his role that Sunday. This man had no role he was just an ordinary citizen and 21 year old hothead. ''We The People'' say he does not speak for 98% of the citizens of Northern Ireland, nor for 98% of Irish citizens, he and Adams are terrorists just like Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda. There so called mission accomplished nothing, it did enormous damage to the North & South, and if a poll was taken tomorrow the IRA would be outlawed and abolished. The Government of Ireland and the Irish Police hate their guts, For proof Google if you will -'IRA'- atrocity, read the results and ask yourself is this this the Ireland I/we want. In Armagh, some years ago two young men had an argument, one mans uncle was in the IRA, and he gave orders the other man had to be killed, he was lured to a farm and 15 men beat him to death with iron bars. Read this without taking sides or allowing partisan warfare to intrude. Charles Parnall must be weeping in his grave, it's a pity he was not made Prime Minister of England, Ireland Scotland and Wales, because he was a giant amongst men, and respected by all.

• jacersagain | Feb 17, 2013, 04:11 PM EST

  There is not a single price that can be put on a human life killed by car accident or killed off by British Army-fired bullets or by IRA bombs or by Loyalist stabbings. Zit price.

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 03:40 PM EST

  Well Frank Lagen of the RUC did send word via Brendan Duddy ( mountain climber) to John Hume not to attend the march for a very good reason.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 17, 2013, 03:29 PM EST

  Allegations butter no convictions. Eamon McCann's eye witness account of Bloody Sunday in Derry states that 1 Para had been hyped-up to an expect IRA engagement which never materialised. Effect, 14 civilians dead. British troops were egged-on by their then C/O to: "Come on the Paras - go get 'em!" The same C/O was duly knighted and became the queens personal aid-de-camp. Undoubtedly one of the many things she said she wished "... had been done differently, or not at all!" (The Queen's speech, Dublin Castle, 2011.)

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 02:49 PM EST

  Portia. The lawyers have already got in the region of 200 million pounds ( so far ). The inquirey itself was allowed to be a financial runaway train that is now being used as a reason not to allow other very relevant inquiries to take place. The SOS is on record as saying that the days of big costly inquiries are gone and will not be met by the British tax payer.

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 02:28 PM EST

  This insult of an offer is to be expected. Afterall Martin Mc Guinness said just before the conclusion of the saville inquirey that " an apoligy would have been suffice in the first place". He could have at least talked to the families before making such a statement. He and his party then went on to demonize the Nash sisters who have had the brave ordasity to continue with the Bloody Sunday march this past 2 years.

• seamus60 | Feb 17, 2013, 02:19 PM EST

  Robin. Whats the weather like today on planet delusion ?

• RedBranch | Feb 17, 2013, 01:51 PM EST

  So will they take the money?

• anglo-norman | Feb 17, 2013, 01:50 PM EST

  Murder is Murder!! The british army committed murder that day!!

• Portia_O'Neill | Feb 17, 2013, 01:29 PM EST

  That's not enough to pay the lawyers; the survivors deserve an award of millions.

• EasyGoingIrish | Feb 17, 2013, 01:23 PM EST

  Hell!, they were only Irish, the families should be grateful for the $ 77,400 (sarcasm).

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 12:32 PM EST

  Daily Mail, London report, Newsflash.17 February 2013. Martin McGuinness intends to admit publicly for the first time that he was the IRA's second-in-command in Londonderry on Bloody Sunday, sources said today. He will make a statement to Lord Saville confirming he was the Derry IRA "Adjutant" at the time of Bloody Sunday. He will also say and confirm say that armed IRA members were in the Londonderry during the march in 1972, but that it had been agreed by them in advance the event should be peaceful. McGuinness is expected to reject outright allegations made during the Bloody Sunday inquiry that he fired the first shot on the fateful day. Ulster’s other Black Day Sunday was when 12 other people were murdered in Enniskillen by the IRA. On the same day there was an attempt to murder 25 Protestant dozen in Tullyhommon, N.I. prevented only by luck when a passing tractor broke the roadside bomb command. There is anger throughout the UK at the sight of the of the Bloody Sunday bereaved that day hugging Martin McGuinness when the Saville enquiry verdict was announced. For the record over the years 250 000 Brit troops served in Northern Ireland, and only a very small number committed crimes, whilst the IRA have killed an estimated 3600 fellow citizens.

• warrenpoint00 | Feb 17, 2013, 12:07 PM EST

  RobinForester, this was not a riot, this was a peaceful demonstration by the people of Derry on their own streets in Ireland when they were murdered by so called forces of law and order,british forces.Martin McGuinness may have held a gun that day, but it was not he who murdered 14 Irishmen, it was british soldiers that murdered those innocent civilians.It is a common fact that many more Irish civilians would have been murdered by those same british forces if people like Martin McGuinness, had not defended their communities from those british murderers that unleashed their reign of terror on the people of Ireland during that period.

• 89west | Feb 17, 2013, 09:51 AM EST

  Taking into account for inflation over the past forty years, the Brits have concluded those who died on Bloody Sunday were worth no more than pennies. Sad commentary on a people looking for reconciliation and healing.

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 08:11 AM EST

  If you view Ireland with love and affection, then you must arrive at the conclusion that it cannot have 'Secret Society's', or a so called 'Underground Militant Society'. Surely all matters that affect it's citizens honouir and standing must be discussed openly in Eire Parliament North and South, and approved by them with honest debate. In practice this means that you cannot have IRA Godfathers, known area trouble makers or 'secret millionaires' whose wealth came from breaking the law and allegedly running booze, cigarettes and black market diesal across the border, or Euro Agri fiddles. The point being when do these persons illegal activities cease to be IRA activities but are 'personal ventures' whose bottom line riches enrich these people and certainly not the Irish citizens they claim to informally represent. The fact is Ireland does not need nor can it ever tolerate or allow Alphonse Capone and Sean Patrick Capone to exist and reside amongst honest people, who want peace and goodwill towards all men.

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 06:14 AM EST

  maireadinmelb asked: Robin just a question about your fairy world version of Britain "What happens when the police or your own soldiers attack you?", Reply: I have never had a parking ticket for over 30 years, never speeded, never had a -'pint'- If anyone is repressed I am, I'll book myself into the Shelbourne Park hotel, have a night at the dogs and a drive out to Cork. Why you may ask, ''why have'nt I had a pint'', both my parents were serious alcoholics, my father sold my rabbits and racing pigeons to buy more drink, and dare I say it millions did. Lets try and lcose our eyes to the past shall we-and move on, I wouldl ike to see Ireland as the new Switzerland of Europe and it could be accomplished.

• RobinForester | Feb 17, 2013, 06:00 AM EST

  Many of your remarks are damaging to Ireland interests. Many of you forget that visitors, tourists and worst of all top businessmen deserted Northern Ireland from 1970 onwards. This wave of revulsion swung across the border and people outside Ireland associated the IRA violence with Ireland itself and they seriously thought all Irish people hated the Brits (again was untrue) and no one could persuade them otherwise. During this period the biggest influx into the UK of new capital and new business start-up was from the USA. Why? Why didn't these companies choose Ireland? because at this level of business the final decision is taken at Board level, and if Ireland was ever mentioned then everyone thoughts went immediately to Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness & Co, and the bombings, the business men kidnappings, murder and street violence. Ireland is a COMMODITY that as to be sold abroad, and any bad publicity for Ireland makes it harder to sell Ireland abroad 'easily'. This is one of those rare occasions when 1% of the Irish nation citizens delivered a 100% devastating blow to the rest of the country by not realising they were ruining Ireland as an International market place and tourist destination. PS: Are we supposed to forget that on the day of the riot it was alleged that Martin McGuinness was carrying a Thompson sub machine gun, or that in1972, at the age of 21, he was second-in-command of the IRA in Derry, a position he held at the time of Bloody Sunday riot.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 16, 2013, 10:48 PM EST

  Good points, cillowen. At a minimum, the government/anglican church (which itself owned and branded slaves) should have to pay back the centuries of forced tithes adjusted for present value and an annual return.

• cillowen | Feb 16, 2013, 09:52 PM EST

  Cromwell's overlooked Irish slaves should be compensated - the human trafficking Empire was and is schutter bottom of toilet stuff. Ex; Queen Anne advised Lord Cornbury to take the necessary steps to ensure that proper payment for slaves be made to the Royal African Company, which had been granted a royal monopoly in the slave trade so that the "Province may have a constant and sufficient supply of merchantable negroes at moderate rates, in money or commodities." The Instructions also required Lord Cornbury to provide the Crown with an annual account of the number of Black slaves in the Colony and their purchase price.

• curtisjohnson | Feb 16, 2013, 07:58 PM EST

  The british terror state is endlessly petty in its insults. @robinforester - “The organisers must have known it would get out of hand and it did.” – uh yeah – when british “soldiers” began firing automatic weapons at unarmed civilians – let’s have the evidence any of the victims fired any shots you filthy little brit troll. It’s amazing that you could continue to lie about what the british terror state no longer disputes after every conceivable attempt at a cover up.

• aloistmartin | Feb 16, 2013, 07:23 PM EST

  The Irish have their Bourgeoisie, and their Prosperity; Why should the British be expected underwrite their exploitation of the Proletariat’s struggle for Socio-Political equity ? If the survivors of the Great Rebellion want Justice from their former English masters, let them take it from the Larders of the Six Counties, the way their Founding Fathers would, by a Rise to Arms !

• anglo-norman | Feb 16, 2013, 07:04 PM EST

  They deserve more than that amount. RIP to the victims.

• seanomelb | Feb 16, 2013, 05:02 PM EST

  There is absolutely no proof that any guns were present other than the those held by the British terrorist who fired on a peaceful demonstration murdering 14 including one child.Robin Foster is just another British apologist ignorant of Irish history and current affairs.Ignorance is bliss to those who know no better

• maireadinmelb | Feb 16, 2013, 04:47 PM EST

  Robin just a question about your fairy world version of Britain "What happens when the police or your own soldiers attack you?" It was not the first or last time the police or your own soldiers attacked unprovoked persons in the occupied territories - go read some history books and get an education!!

• bunkerisland | Feb 16, 2013, 03:11 PM EST

  Seems the disagreements go on and apparently if it were "a riot in the fullest sense of the word" killing of others is acceptable. In most societies riots are curbed with means other than shooting to kill. Those functioning as enforcement officers for the British Government have a long history of shooting to kill. Just ask the many nations that have been exploited by the Brits over the past few centuries.

• IrelandNorth | Feb 16, 2013, 02:45 PM EST

  RobinForester! Your historical amnesia is almost as unsettling as your apparent geographical dyslexia. Your retrospective recrimination of summarily executed civil rights protesters is inconsistent with the Rt Hon Lord Savill's Enquiry exonerating of them. Why did your Prime Minister apologise if they were culpable. Your entrenchment precedes you, as you quite obviously see the past through orange tinted spectacles.

• RobinForester | Feb 16, 2013, 01:15 PM EST

  This was not a civil rights March or peaceful protest. It was in the fullest sense of the word a riot. The organisers must have known it would get out of hand and it did. It was their duty to have stop and abandon the march, and to call these rioters to order. Amongst the men shot 2 had guns, I man had a nail bomb and several had petrol bombs, whilst one man was shot in a car priming a petrol bomb. The amount of stones and bricks they threw at their very own British soldiers was unbelievable. These people cannot profess to be British citizens, live in British Council homes, draw British Social Security benefits, then when it suits them reject British rule. No matter how bad the troubles they never ever divided Northern Island into two halves Union and Catholic, nor can they drag ancient arguments out of the cobwebs of history to justify one atrocity after another and their illegal `behaviour on that day. Peaceful protest is always welcome in Britain, and at times it is often a festive occasions (the student protests for instance) but under no circumstances can you attack the Police or your own soldiers. That will never be acceptable to Catholics, Protestants, or the democratic viewpoint. I regret anyone died and, if their families or other feel aggrieved then they should look at the old TV documentaries and news broadcast covering that event for proof of the serious riot that occurred.

• Seanmor | Feb 16, 2013, 12:07 PM EST

  In the eyesof the British government, the life of a civilian in the North of Ireland is merely worth $77,000, but that paltry amount is apparently much greater that the worth of a Notherner when viewed by the crowd in the Dáil. Less that 5½ months prior to Bloody Sunday (21 Oct.of '71) Stormont M.P. Paddy Kennedy attempted to say a few words in the Dáil as the North was being debated, but he was rudely ejected on orders of the Leas Ceann Comhairle (Deputy Speaker). Had the Dáil listened to Kennedy and used its diplomnatic influence with G.B., the lives of 14 Irish citizens in the North may have been saved. But the powers in Dublin stood idly by, as if these lives were of little value.