Bishop of Cloyne apologizes from American hideaway

-- Typical case of the pot calling the kettle... eerie complains about an over the top sentence of more than 100 words.... this after some 30 wordy exchanges with JuneAnnointted, easily surpassing 1500 words each? -- Guilty as charged! I confess, I succumbed to mental and finger fatigue after trying to scroll past their interminable droning -- Oh that there were substance involved in their musings... but all their blather amounts to nothing more than 'dust in the wind.' Theirs is a case of verbal jousting at which neither one of them wins, nor unfortunately offers an end, since both have more wind than sense, and both suffer from an acute case of repetitious personal dogmatism worthy of as little credibility as deserved by the tendentious sources they both cite. -- The losers in this case are those of us forced to witness their wordy squabbles. May the Lord most graciously attend to our pleas as we earnestly pray that someone, or some more pressing concern manages to pry these two off their exhausted keyboards.

2Bor throws a more-than-100-word sentence at us and, of all things, it's a complaint about other people droning on incessantly! But OK, alright, I get the point. Maybe JuneAnnette gets the point too. It boils down to this, from my perspective: Catholics disillusioned by these horrendous revelations of abuse and cover up should not simply trade their now-discredited Vatican "authority" for just a different type of religious "authority." They should use their new-found freedom to do some reforming of their own church. That's all the advice from me folks, for a while at least....

It is a Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible . . continued . .The churches, whatever their constitution, would not exist except that they were instituted and ordered by the Word made flesh who dwelt among us, nor would they have any mandate but for His commandments given to them as to their mission in the world and their conduct in their assemblies. Without the inspired Scriptures, there would be no Matthew 16:18 or I Timothy 3:15 for Rome to even use to attempt to justify itself. Before man was created, the Word of God (He who was revelation to man in the flesh, and of the same Spirit as inspired the Scriptures) made and ordered the universe and all the habitations into which man later would be placed. Christ also said that the house of the wise man must be built upon the immovable rock of His sayings. (Matt. 7:24-29) The Word of God, the Scriptures which God has said He has magnified above all His Name, are from God Himself, God-breathed (theopneustos - qeopneusto$) to the inspired writers of Scripture, thus their origin is God Himself. The potter has power over the clay. Likewise, God through His Word and by right of origination has power over the churches. THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS SUBJECT TO THE WORD OF GOD, NOT VICE-VERSA! P.S. I'm not an ex-nun and have been happily married for 32 years.

It is a Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible . . continued . . The very word "authority" presupposes an "author," a source from whence power and the right to exercise that power are derived. It has long been held by the Roman Catholic religion that within itself, in the offices of the Pope and the Magisterium, is the authority that must be obeyed by all Christians. As part of this claim, Rome supposes to establish its authority over the Bible, God's Word, as well. Yet, to make this claim, Rome ultimately needs to base itself upon the Bible. Without the passages of Scripture which Rome uses to try to prove its position of authority over Christians, there would be no basis for such a claim at all. Both, however, cannot be the source of authority, so which is it - the hierarchy or the Bible?The answer must be the Bible. The precognition of origin demands that the Word of God take precedence over the organization of man into bodies instituted by God, for without that Word, there would be no guidelines for said organization. THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS SUBJECT TO THE WORD OF GOD, NOT VICE-VERSA!

It is a Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible . . continued . . All the New Testament books were written between 45-75 A.D. excluding the apostle John's writings, which occurred later in 80-95 A.D. There were schools of Scribes (scholia) that copied the Scripture by hearing, also lecture rooms were people would copy down what they heard. From the beginning the church copied and shared the original documents to circulate the apostles writings. By 170 A.D. Most of the Bible had already been approved and read by the church and the term New Testament was in use. This was long before any council. The Roman church says they proclaimed which books were actually inspired and placed them in one volume, so we should all be indebted to the Catholic Church for the New Testament. Actually the Catholic Church in 397 at the Council of Carthage had the 27 books considered the canon. However these books were read and distributed as Scripture for over 300 years by individual Christians and church’s long before their church councils claimed to give us the Bible. The canon of the New Testament was set from the first century.

It is a Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible . . continued . . The Holy Bible / the Canon of Scriptures / the inspired Word of God as it is found in the Old Testament consists of the 22 books that comprise the Jewish Bible, known as the Tanakh, compiled by the Jews, while the New Testament received from the Apostles and compiled by the early Christians is comprised of 27 books. In summary, the early Christians had in their hands what was a Bible to them, namely, the Old Testament Scriptures. As it is written in Romans 3:1-2, the “oracles of God” were committed to the Jews. We can produce almost all the New Testament from the church fathers writings and quotations before the year 150 A.D. proving that there was no church government to approve of what was in or out. The Scripture is God breathed, its origin is with God, it is not man given (2 Pt.1:21). The churches commission is to protect and promote the word as she is the pillar and ground of truth. Jesus said HE was the TRUTH (John 14:6) and HIS WORD was TRUTH. (John 17:17) To abandon this source puts one outside being called the church. THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS SUBJECT TO THE WORD OF GOD, NOT VICE-VERSA!

It is a Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible! The authority of the Hebrew Bible (The Old Testament) is God Himself who revealed Himself through the prophets who wrote God’s word to the people. This authority of Scripture continued with the New Testament as the church is built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20). The teachings and writing of Jesus and his Apostles formed the essence of Christianity. Jesus through His apostles established His church, and through them revealed scripture. Therefore, the basis of canon is apostolic authority. There needs to be a distinction between discovery and selection of canon. The church did not choose the canon, but discovered the canon. The word “canon” refers to a collection of books, accepted as authoritative, inspired scripture. The source of the word comes from the Hebrew word, “hnq Qaneh”, which means reed or stalk, the English word “cane” comes from this Semitic or Hebrew word. Reeds were used as measuring rods, because of their straight form, hence the measuring or rule of scripture, became known as canon. THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS SUBJECT TO THE WORD OF GOD, NOT VICE-VERSA!

give me a break he knew what he was doing. he like the rest are disingenuos. They send bernard law to Rome so he would miss out on being tried or questioned so they do the same with this fiend, but we in the states sure don't want him. get him out of here we have enough dirty priests.

get a life eiremach and juneanette. We skipped all your religious blathering...TOO-O-O-O MUCH!!!! Correspond with each other privately and save us your holy roller stuff.

eiramach . . some comments back, I wrote: "But that is not what is meant by a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Saving faith . . simply defined is taking God at His Word and believing all that He has revealed to us of His beloved Son in the scriptures. It is an implicit trust that is wrought in us by the operation of the Holy Spirit as He impresses His Word upon the conscience and writes it upon the “fleshy tables of our heart”. (Ex.11:19-20; Heb. 8:10-11)****The citation noted . . Exodus 11:19-20 was in error. I meant to cite Ezekiel 11:19-20. I hope you will take the time to carefully and prayerfully consider all the scriptures I sought to direct your attention to and know too, it was done in the spirit of Christian love.

eiriamach . . more thoughts from theologians / biblical scholars who commend the reading of God's Word to all men.*** Kenneth Howkins – Senior Lecturer in Religious Studies – Balls Park College of Education – Hertford - (deceased ? )“Clearly also the Christian must use his own mind to receive the word of God. He must read carefully, compare one passage with another and use all the aids he can. Besides this he needs to seek the help of the Holy Spirit, through whom Scripture was written, to illuminate its meaning. As with the writers of Scripture, so with its readers, the mind and whole being needs to be dedicated to God. It is one of the remarkable features of the Bible that it contains enough to occupy the greatest intellects for a lifetime, and yet the simplest soul can read and understand, and in reading with an obedient heart find God himself.”****“The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.” (Prov. 119:130)****JuneAnnette, a simple soul

eiriamach . . more thoughts. from theologians / biblical scholars who commend the reading of God's Word to all men.***- David Field – Senior Tutor, Oak Hill Theological College, London - (deceased ? )“The Bible is not written in a secret spiritual code which must be cracked if its message is to be understood. Provided it is read sensibly. . . it is clear enough for the simplest Christian to live by, as well as being profound enough to exercise the mind of the brightest scholar for a lifetime. The decisive qualifications for profitable Bible study are spiritual rather than intellectual. Among the qualities which the Bible itself suggests, the following are particularly prominent: A will to obey: (John 7:17); Concentration: (2 Tim. 2:15); Patience: (Heb. 6:12; Heb. 11:17-19; Persistence: Luke 8:18; Submission to the Holy Spirit: (Luke 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:9-16; 2 Tim. 3:15-17)”

eiriamach . . more on God's Word . . Some seem to be under the misguided idea that the scriptures cannot be understood by the “common man” and that they must be interpreted by those regarded by “their church” as “scholars”. There are however, many theologians / “biblical scholars” who are of another school of thought altogether and commend the reading of God's Word to all men.***MORE THOUGHTS OF ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM OF ANTIOCH AND BYZANTIUM**It is absurd, while we will not trust other people in pecuniary affairs, but choose to reckon and calculate for ourselves, that in matters of far higher consequence we should implicitly follow the opinions of others, especially as we possess the most exact and perfect rule and standard by which to regulate our several inquiries: I mean the regulation of the divine laws. I, therefore, could wish that all of you would reject what this or that man says, and that you would investigate all these things in the Scriptures. (Hom. 13, 4:10 ad fin. in 2 Cor.)

Eiriamach . . more on God's Word . . Some seem to be under the misguided idea that the scriptures cannot be understood by the “common man” and that they must be interpreted by those regarded by “their church” as “scholars”. There are however, many theologians / “biblical scholars” who are of another school of thought altogether and commend the reading of God's Word to all men.***ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM OF ANTIOCH AND BYZANTIUM* (347-407) ***Formerly it might have been ascertained by various means which was the true church, but at present there is no other method left for those who are willing to discover the true church of Christ but by the Scriptures alone. And why? Because heresy has all outward observances in common with her. If a man, therefore, be desirous of knowing the true church, how will he be able to do it amid so great resemblance, but by the Scriptures alone? Wherefore our Lord, foreseeing that such a great confusion of things would take place in the latter days, ordered the Christians to have recourse to nothing but the Scriptures. The man of God could not be perfect without the Scriptures. [Paul says to Timothy:] “You have the Scriptures: if you desire to learn anything, you may learn it from them.” But if he writes these things to Timothy, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, how much more must we think these things spoken to us. (Hom. 9 in 2 Tim. 1:9) ***

eiriamach, I wish to share some of my thoughts, along with the thoughts of others regarding God's Word . . the Bible with you and others who may be following this discussion on the sidelines. I would encourage those who have never applied themselves to a serious reading/consideration/study of the Scriptures for themselves to do so. Be as the “Bereans” of whom it was said by God. . . “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11)I would urge all to use the mind and intellect God has given to you in what I can assure you will be the most challenging and rewarding undertaking you will pursue and one that will literally transform your lives. As God Himself has said of His Word . . . “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (II Tim. 3:15-17)In verse 17 . . God says . . the “man of God”. This phrase can also be understood as the “godly man” or the “God-fearing man”.