Bill O'Reilly and Karl Rove went at it on the "O'Reilly Factor" the other night on immigration.
The heated exchange typified the thunder on the right on the issue of immigration reform, but the lack of any real policy to deal with the issue.
O'Reilly was caught out by Rove on this one with Rove essentially saying it was very easy for the right to slam Bush and now Obama on immigration, but yet they offered very little in return.
Here is some of the testy exchange;
O’Reilly: Look, look. Under President Bush, you put in the virtual fence. 50-million-dollar virtual fence.
Rove: We started the virtual fence.
O’Reilly: Erected, Mr. Rove. $50 million wasted. Wasted.
Rove: No, no. No not at all. We had — hey, look, bill, you have got to try everything. We put up the fence.
We put up sensors that did work. Watch tours that did work. We tried everything. You can’t start something as important as this and throw as much money as we did and expect to have everything work perfectly.
O’Reilly: That’s a good point I cede that point.
Rove: We doubled the size of the border patrol and tripled the budget. Bush ended 30 years of the practice of catch and release where we took “OTM’s” (other than Mexicans) and released them on their own recognizance and we ended that practice by spending a lot of money.
O’Reilly: Mr. Rove, you guys did some good things.
Rove: And so did president Clinton.
O’Reilly: You were slow. It took me five years to pound you guys into sending to the border. After five years of pounding me did you it that was far too slow.
Rove: I hate to tell you but governors had something.
O’Reilly: I let you had yours. Let me have mine. You were slow to get the guard to the border. That’s a fact. The second thing is, this is the most powerful country on earth. We can control the South Korean border but we can’t control the southern border. You are right. Some sectors, San Diego, some parts of Texas, are virtually impenetrable, they can’t get through, Arizona, New Mexico, other parts of Texas you can imperial county, California. And that is a disgrace for the most powerful country in the world. The federal government can do this. Go.
Rove: Bill, you know, your analogy that we are like north and South Korea, armed states, we aren’t. We aren’t north and South Korea. We have millions of people south of the border who are trying to come a cross a very long and very porous border. It’s gotten a lot tougher. Give the border patrol and the government some confidence that they’re doing a better job.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.weedflemishgian | Sep 19, 2010, 03:01 PM EDT
O'Reilly is correct. There is something pathetic in our inability to defend our own borders. His analogy to Korea is right on. Here is a question? If Iraq was crossing into Arizona in a declared war, would we have the same difficulty defending that border as we do now? The problem is not that we don't have the capability. The problem is we don't have the desire, primarily because MOST of the U.S. voting public does not live in a border state.
plasticpaddy | Aug 15, 2010, 05:30 PM EDT
It really is not as simple as you make it out to be. Most of these people couldnt even afford the fees to apply for immigrant status. It is purposefully prohibitively expensive and accessible. Were it more accessible then I think your argument would carry more weight. Also Ronald Reagan failed at everything he espoused. Government grew under him more than any other president even Roosevelt with the grand schemes after the depression. He damaged severely America's good name by supporting fascist dictators such as Pinochet who were guilty of mass murder and supported Thatchers murder of innocent civilians in Northern Ireland/ to mention him on an Irish website when he supported an enemy of this country is both insensitive to his role in the plight of our Northern brethren and to ignore his actual failure despite his saying all that the right wanted to hear. Too much revisionist history occurs around Reagan.
chesapeake | Jun 16, 2010, 09:59 AM EDT
Sounds like the same old blame Bush rhetoric. The fact is quite evident... the Dems want - no, NEED - illegal votes in order to survive. This includes ACORN and, of course, as many of the 13,000.000 plus votes from the illegal immigrants. The conservatives have placed Obama between a rock and a hard place... grant amnesty and lose the elections or throw the illegal aliens out en masse and lose the elections. Yes, we have a problem; but it will take time and the cooperation of the alien population. They must go the full route to become tax-paying, English-speaking, American citizens. I do think that the present demands are rather stringent (some 5 years)but we cannot bestow citizenship with a wave of the hand in order to win cheap votes. Oh, Dennis Q... don't blame the Republicans for everything bad. They made Clinton look good and things only started to fall apart when the Dems got control of Congress. Also consider that Mexico actually seems to enjoy trashing the United States. Your - our - biggest worry right now is the fact that there isn't another Ronald Reagan out there to pull us back up from the brink.
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JDCampbell | May 27, 2010, 10:01 PM EDT
A rather weak argument from Rove. Mostly excuses from past administrations. The conversation was about the virtual fence which was an "intentional waste" of taxpayer money. Another delay tactic if you will.
DennisQ | May 17, 2010, 05:48 AM EDT
In one sense, right wingers are indeed under siege, as measured by the past few national elections. Republicans promised greater liberty for all; that meant that megacorporations ran wild. They promised greater respect for America; that meant endless, ambiguous wars. Now they'd like to hang on to the permanent underclass in the face of a reawakening that working people have to stand together against the bosses.
seanomelbourne | May 16, 2010, 02:42 AM EDT
It has always been the strategy of the right to use immigration to provoke idiots in believing they are under siege.Every election out comes the terrorist and immigration juggernaut fueled by Fox news,Hannity,Malkin,Coulter and the list goes on.
DennisQ | May 15, 2010, 06:39 PM EDT
Many people are missing the moral dimension of the effect on poor people of American immigration policy. Oppression of the poor is immoral. The Catholic Church condemns it as a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance. The notion that these absurdly restrictive laws protect American interests - and they DON'T - is a sop to the guilty consciences of otherwise-moral Americans who support these laws.
seanomelbourne | May 14, 2010, 08:43 AM EDT
big business interests love illegal immigrants it reduces wage costs to almost slave labour status, thus the reluctance by politicians to tackle the problem. The flow-on effect is to stifle a fair pay system for American workers.Wake up America.
DennisQ | May 14, 2010, 05:31 AM EDT
The answers are wrong because the questions are wrong. Instead of asking how can we keep these people out, we should re-conceptualize the nation state. This is not the 1800's anymore, although the rhetoric often sounds like it. People go where the jobs are. We need to regulate immigration without creating a permanent underclass of "illegal" people. Absurdly restrictive immigration policy accomplishes nothing positive.
seanomelbourne | May 12, 2010, 07:02 PM EDT
Is TexasGal another cupboard racist?The Irish has it's own illegal immigration problem,we do not need your "stuff-up's"
McNamara31 | May 12, 2010, 02:13 PM EDT
TexasGal "most of them are Catholic or Muslim"" Ireland is a nanny state so the Mex will fit right in."How 'bout that destruction of the American economy brought to us by the that last Texan in the White House? And now we're dealing with a 14 billion dollar clean up in the Gulf because of their cozy deregulation, that allowed them to build rigs without the back up "safety valves" that the rest of the world requires.Immigrants didn't break the economy, George W. did.
TexasGal | May 12, 2010, 11:20 AM EDT
Let send all the Mex to Ireland and let then take your jobs and you pay for their healthcare and most of them are Catholic or Muslim. Ireland is a nanny state so the Mex will fit right in
TexasGal | May 12, 2010, 11:06 AM EDT
@ritmomente do you think that only Mex can do those jobs deport the bunch and give back those jobs to American's.
allentown | May 11, 2010, 12:40 PM EDT
Ritmomente, how many of those laborers, carpenters, plumbers, roofers, plasterers, nannys, waitresses, dishwashers and housecleaners are part of our 17.1% unemployed?
ritmomente | May 11, 2010, 10:56 AM EDT
Well I don't agree with amnesty either. If they're paying a fine, by definition, it is not amnesty.
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 07:38 PM EDT
allentown, if they can't work, they can't afford a plane ticket. now you've got more homeless. Plus, if you in one instant fire 12,000,000,000 people, good luck finding a laborer, carpenter, plumber, roofer, plaster, nanny, waitress, dishwasher, or housecleaner. Talk about an economical meltdown.
Frednuni | May 10, 2010, 05:44 PM EDT
I think the whole border problem is a discrase
allentown | May 10, 2010, 05:44 PM EDT
Senator Bennett, the Republican Senator from Utah who voted for amnesty was defeated last week in the Republican primary by both Republicans running against him. The November changes are starting early.
jimgordo1 | May 10, 2010, 05:25 PM EDT
Hey, murphy66 -- right on! let's do tear that fence down and make this a Catholic country! When do you want to start? Cheers.
allentown | May 10, 2010, 04:59 PM EDT
>>How is it possible to deport 12,000,000 illegal aliens?<< You don't deport them. You prevent them from finding work. They go home voluntarily. It's called manditory E-Verify with harsh enforcement against violating employers.
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 02:16 PM EDT
not 12,000,000 in one shot Fran. There are 300,000,000 documented citizens here and 12,000,000,000 undocumented immigrants. How is it possible for us to deport all of them? Who's going to pay for it? Does anyone have data on the cost per person to deport? And lock the border tight. We deserve to know every individual that is in this country and crosses our border.
Fran Connor | May 10, 2010, 01:53 PM EDT
Ritmomente, check your history. We can deport millions of illegals. In fact, we've done it in the past.
Dompedro | May 10, 2010, 01:38 PM EDT
so closing the border isn't a "real policy"? nobody, O"Dowd, ritmomnte has the courage to answer the question: "how many aliens, immigrants (legal/illegal) is enough ? a few more came last night and the few more each day will amount to a whole lot more by the end of the year, eg and we let hundreds of thousands of aliens in every year legally without "special skills", unless the ability to pick tomatoes and strawberries is a "special skill"
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 01:25 PM EDT
Monsoonman wouldn't like that either, murphy66. If you're not W.A.S.P., you're not welcome in his country.
murphy66 | May 10, 2010, 12:19 PM EDT
Remove the border. Turn America into a Catholic country sooner than later.
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 11:52 AM EDT
Ad nauseam. You have 12,000,000 people inside our borders. It is physically and fiscally impossible to deport all of them. If every one of them comes forward and pays a fine for being here without a visa, we would make money instead of spending it on deportation. You set up a method for people to come through legally (there isn't one other than by marriage or the extreme cases of special skills or asylum). You secure your borders completely. Those that do not abide by the corrected system are the true criminals. There have been undocumented people here for decades who have social security numbers, bank accounts, pay taxes and have families but no means towards legal citizenship. Show me how the current broken and unenforceable laws make this happen.
reinkefj | May 10, 2010, 11:27 AM EDT
We should have just have a check in station to: (1) accept your return ticket so you can always go home; (2) give a free physical for communicable diseases; (3) hand out id cards to prove you're in the country "legally"; and (4) say "welcome". Point to the Statue of Liberty and say "go to it folks". All this, right after we ended all the "welfare" for everyone -- corporations, citizens, and non-citizens.
clonmel21 | May 10, 2010, 09:49 AM EDT
Ritmomente, The mexican should not be in the US to begin with unless she thre LEGALLY!!!
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 09:39 AM EDT
monsoonman I've been bitten by nothing. The worst kind of racist is the closet one like you.
clonmel21 | May 10, 2010, 09:32 AM EDT
Right on Monsooman. Other countries put you in prison and or kill you.
Monsoonman | May 10, 2010, 09:27 AM EDT
ritmonte:...and i asked if you had been bitten on the snout by a rabid bat. So where's my answer? The last ditch escape from an intellectual dogfight in which you lose is to pull the race card ejection seat lever. You seem to have premature evacuation problems by pulling the racist lever as soon as you get into the cockpit. Hasta la vista.
odubhlaoich | May 10, 2010, 09:17 AM EDT
Haven't we heard enough from Rove and O'Reilly? I don't watch Fox because it is a waste of my time. Why must IC continue to pepper us with their propaganda? Who's up next, Himmler and Goebbels discussing the Jewish question?
billohagenbender | May 10, 2010, 09:10 AM EDT
I would see some reform concerning the IRISH ! I have very Close Friends that are waiting for a Long time for the U.S. to do SOMETHING concerning Their status. Slainte !>toig
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 08:01 AM EDT
just come out and say it, coward monsoonman. You're a racist. Admit it.
ritmomente | May 10, 2010, 08:00 AM EDT
monsoonman, you didn't answer my question. if a mexican woman gets raped, should she be checked for papers before being administered care? should a woman who is about to give birth be checked for papers before the baby is delivered? johnnyo, you grammar is poorer than those coming over here from foreign countries.
Monsoonman | May 09, 2010, 09:26 PM EDT
"We also must push the 12,000,000 undocumented and unkown in this country towards...Ritamonte, I agreed with you up until that point....But I finish your little diatribe with: Towards the border and out of the USA. Then they can apply at a later time for citizenship in the USA....Name me any country that lets just anybody skip across their borders and give them full social services?
tsullivan1218 | May 09, 2010, 08:46 PM EDT
Just a couple of douche bags whose opinion doesn't mount to a hill of beans. Jerks!
JOHNNYO | May 09, 2010, 08:33 PM EDT
they would not be coming across the border if they didn't have jobs.put big fine's on employer's hireing these people
ritmomente | May 09, 2010, 02:07 PM EDT
The border must be secured to secure our safety. We also must push the 12,000,000 undocumented and unkown in this country towards a legal path to citizenship or a guest worker visa program. Criminals will choose neither and it will be easier to deport them.
ritmomente | May 09, 2010, 02:06 PM EDT
Burrowed? Monsoonman continues his diatribe. Perhaps Mexicans are lower than humans...perhaps moles? Keep flying your stars and bars and shouting at people that don't look like you.
Monsoonman | May 09, 2010, 11:38 AM EDT
Rove is just as responsible for this illegal alien mess as anyone else is. While he was in power he did nothing to stem the flow of illegals into our country and did little or nothing to root out the illegals who burrowed into our society.
DeaconJack | May 09, 2010, 10:47 AM EDT
The both of them are "bullshiviks" where I come from!