Aussie Archbishop slams Catholics who defy church on contraception

@IrishRgreat Ctd, In general terms, I could counter your distortions regarding Catholic history, by pointing out the incalculable but low-profile work that the Church has done with regard to the provision of global health/social care, education and charity to the most needy and impoverished in the world. In fact the Church is the main provider of such care outside UN NGOs. I could cite the work done by Catholic Peace and Justice networks around the globe in terms of peace-making. Also I could at length discuss the unparalleled Catholic contribution to Art,Music and Architecture, but I will stop there. In summary, you try to depict the Catholic Church as some sort of evil conspiracy about to subvert the world, despite the above vast evidence to the contrary. To put the Church on the same level as genocidal nazism or communism is clearly ludicrous and cannot be taken seriously. I do not dispute that there dark periods in Church history, but this has been so, since the first apostolic age. But with the Grace of God, the Church will clean house and restore Her reputation.

@IrishRgreat, Your posting just consists of a regurgitation of half-digested truths, black legends(patently false) and distortions regarding the history of the Catholic Church. You start off with a scattergun approach, by depicting the whole Vatican as protectors of pedophiles and persecutors of homosexuals etc. The present Pope has been involved in a clean-up prora in relation to the sex-abuse crisis. In 2010, he considerably tightened up Canon law to make it easier to remove priests guilty of such crimes, from the priesthood. Indeed since his days as head of the CDF)Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), he has been on the reforming side of the Vatican Curia, seeking to systematically root out the scourge. He has also met on numerous occasions with victims, during his journeys abroad. Cardinal Dolan(while Archbishop of Milwaukee) was offering financial inducements for those guilty or heavily suspected of such crimes, to remove themselves from the priesthood. This was done, partially out of charitable reasons and to obviate the interminable process of waiting for a canonical trial, which may not get the desired result. It is not a course that I personally favor, but I can see the reason behind it. The very distressing Brazilian case concerning the rape of the little girl, resultant abortion and excommunication of the doctors who procured it, caused divisions within the Vatican. Archbishop Fisichella, then head of the Pontifical Academy of Life,criticized the haste and necessity for such a decision. There were 3 victims here, the young girl who was violated and the twin foetuses who were aborted.

Gearoid4, 1) I did not deny the FACTS of history you alluded to; I pointed out the fallacy in trying to discredit an organization by attacking the character of one of its founders. The "unsavory" ideas of one of its founders has absolutely NO BEARING on the value and morality of its services today-- or even its services at the time of its founding! 2) Teenagers' lives: PP is one of the few organizations that undertake sex education of teens and their teachers. This is an invaluable service at a time when states and churches--such as your own church--are doing everything they can to eliminate sex education from the schools. Many a sexually active teenager who visits a PP clinic for treatment of a vaginal infection is shocked-- and educated-- to hear the clinician ask when she plans to buy her baby's layette, since she has a 90% chance of becoming pregnant within a year if she does not use contraceptives. That's the beginning of responsibility for many teens, who will never learn to take responsibility for their reproductive lives in your church.

@Lokionline, I don't mind if the public consensus is against the views that I believe in. But ultimately truth cannot depend on the vagaries of public opinion to base itself upon. Certain truths are eternal and will stand the test of time. You state that my views presage the kind of legislation that Republican local admins would put through their chambers. But I do not want to impose anything but propose. People are free to accept my arguments or not. Theocratic societies are not favoured by me. You ask if I'm a priest. No, I'm just a Catholic lay person who believes in the life-giving message of Christ, and likes to convey his opinion on important moral questions which effect society.

@Eiriamach, My points are in no way "fallacious" logic, and can be verified by a look-up of the past histories of the organizations that I mentioned and their association with the Eugenics movement. You are trying to divert attention away from the points that I'm making regarding bodies like Planned Parenthood and their unsavory past. I assume that you mean that pregnancy is a disease when you mention it in the context of PP saving the lives of teenagers. There is little doubt that this type of situation, is fraught with a lot of tension and worry for families. But one does not add to to one wrong by committing another i.e destroying the growing life in the womb. PP is the biggest provider of abortion in the USA. A boast that no organization can be proud of. In surveys, clinics report that over 50% of their referrals are for failed contraceptive measures. Thus the two are closely interlinked.

RCC needs another watershed moment, open to discoveries in both natural and social science, open to reconciling conscience with new knowledge. It had one such moment June 23, 1964, when Paul VI, on his first anniversary as pope, said that the Church must "affirm what is her concern-- namely, the law of God which she interprets, teaches, promotes, and defends. And the Church must proclaim this law of God in the light of the scientific, social and psychological truths which in recent times have had new and very extensive study and documentation.... The question [of the morality of contraception] is under study-- a study as broad and as deep as possible in that serious and honest manner which is due to a subject of such importance.... and with the help of many illustrious scholars we hope to quickly conclude it. We will issue the findings...." Four years later, he closed the Church off from the Revelation that post-biblical ages have sought in the study of nature. He rejected his "illustrious" committee's unanimous recommendation and issued Humanae Vitae-- his last encyclical-- written 10 years before his death. Did he spend those 10 mute years repenting the burden he left on Catholic consciences, along with the heritage of overlords like Hickey and Dolan?

Gearoid, sex was around long before the catholic church was as was marriage and both will still be around long after the catholic church has left Ireland.

Gearoid4. Your posts are fascinating. I admire your spirit and your efforts to engage in a cordial exchange. You are clearly comfortable with your worldview.

But, for many, the worldview you espouse resembles an out-of-date, tight and uncomfortable garment.

You may be comfortable living within a world defined by ancient scripture and ruled by the men in the Vatican, but evidence suggests that the majority of Irish people do not agree with you today and the majority of Irish if they had actually been asked at any time in history, likely never did.

Keep up the good fight Gearoid4 you provide us all with a vision of what happens when we allow folks with your outlook to set public policy. Evidence of which is coming in loud and clear from Republican dominated state houses across the US.

I'm curious... what do you do? Are you a priest? What role do you play in your catholic community?

@Gearoid4, your recourse to shoddy logic (fallacies) never ceases to astonish me. Yes, there were people who advocated even racist eugenics policies when services like Planned Parenthood were begun, just as your own organization has had many popes who advocated slavery, the deaths of women in pregnancy and childbearing rather than permitting them even life-saving contraceptives (Pius XII in 1958), burning at the stake for those who dissented on doctrinal questions, and genocide against Muslims (and Jews who lived along the way) as the Crusaders rode to the Holy Lands. Do the murderous histories of such churchmen invalidate the truths of Christ? No, of course not! Similarly, Planned Parenthood literally SAVES LIVES, gives teenagers control over their lives, and allows families to plan their childbearing to meet their financial RESPONSIBILITIES-- that's a moral approach to human sexuality. No "guilt by association" and no patent "ad hominem" smears of a handful of individuals can discredit the work of such groups as Planned Parenthood. If these laughably fallacious arguments are the best you have left to offer, you should give it up.

Gearoid4, if one were to judge the diety that was worshipped by Catholics today I would say that diety is concerned with protecting pedophiles, persecuting homosexuals, having lots of children and hating condoms. I suppose that just about sums up the state of the Vatican and its princes these days. We are now finding that Dolan paid off pedophile priests to go away while telling the victims how sorry he was. Over in Garden Grove, CA, the church just moved into a 57 million dollar Crystal Cathedral. Not bad for poverty. How about the 9 year old and her family who were excommunicated because the girl had an abortion after a rape. Note that the church did not excommunicate the rapist or any of the pedophiles or the Vatican bank thief. I can go on for hours Gearoid4 but I suggest that you don't point fingers at anyone or that you don't defend one of the most evil organizations in history. If you are Irish then I simply ask you this: what came first, the Irish or RC church? The Irish came first. So, the Irish stick together and the RC church can go you know where. I think that the One Who made the Universe will understand.

Sexual activity is the most intimate and profound expression of a mutual love between man and woman in marriage, which is a revelation of the natural compatibility between them. It is also a sign of the couple's willingness to procreate. You may not accept that definition, but that is your choice. The Church preaches about the natural order in relation to human relationships, and this unavoidably includes the nature of sexual relationships, whether you like it or not.

gearoid, theres nothing crass about my comments. Sex acts of any description are nothing to do with the church. what people do consentually in the privacy of their own lives are no ones business but their own and for so called, 'celibate men' who have never had an intimate relationship in their lives to tell the rest of us how we should live our lives or who we should have sex with, gay or straight, well that just takes the biscuit.

@Eiriamach, Do you know the association of the birth-control industry with the eugenics mentality as typified by Planned Parenthood and Marie Stopes International. Their founders were promulgators of policies which favored the use of sterilization and contraception to prevent "inferior" individuals and ethnic groups from having children. These are hardly good associations for the contraceptive industry and are no recommendation for anyone who wants to dispute the Church's ban on artificial birth-control. You claim that the Bible has no clear teachings regarding contraception. It must be stated that there are no unambiguous words in the scriptures outlawing it. But one must the general bias that the Good Book has toward the procreation of life and by extension this precludes the use of contraceptive methods to frustrate it. One has only to think of the burdens which barrenness brought to such biblical personalities as Sarah (Genesis 21:6-7 and Hebrews 11:11-12), Rebekah (Genesis 25:21), Rachel (Genesis 30:22-23), Manoah's wife (Judges 13:2-3 24), Hannah (1 Samuel, chapter one), the Shunammite (2 Kings 4:14-17), and Elizabeth (Luke, chapter one). Also God exhorted the people of the tribes of Israel to "Go Forth and Multiply"(Genesis 9:1). I think therefore there is ample proof within the pages of the Bible which treated fertility as a sign of God's Providence and the Christian Church from it's earliest Apostolic age, taught against the use of contraceptive methods to prevent conception.

Rather silly crass comments in the last couple of commentaries, that add nothing to this debate

Catholic priests are obsessed with what people do in the bedroom! Theyre all on for hetero sex so are straight people who have anal sex going to hell or is that just reserved for gay men?