Archdiocese of Dublin proposes radical change in First Communion ceremonies to avoid extravagance

Lets remember Towngate, not so long ago Irelands unemployment rate was 4%, one of the lowest in europe. The vast majority of people on welfare had a job paying tax. Irelands welfare rates are at this level because Ireland is and always was a very expensive country to live in as you know. The government did not care about these 4% unemployed at those times because it was so low, its only now it is a problem because the country is at 15% unemployed. The government and banks screwed up and the most vulnerable in the country keep taking the hit.

Hi Bobby. It's clear we are not going to agree on this. I live in the Ireland of today and know of which I write. By proposing the changes, it appears Archbishop Martin agrees with me. Kill the showtime element and get back to basic faith. Household Welfare payments are obscenely high and your listing of some of them serves to undermine the need for further grants for religious fancy dress competitions! A neighbour here bitterly complains she and her husband (neither working - but fit) are expected to survive on State Benefits of over €2,300.00 per month. 'I hope it keeps fine for them' as we say here - but what all 'lifestyle claimants' really need in a hefty kick in the craic! Finally, my opinions and observations are not generated from anger or hatred,Bobby, but are sad reflections of the facts of the Politicians and population pretending they are not living in a bailed-out Bankrupt State.

Towngate when you say (it is ridiculous that poor kids are given it in order to keep up with appearances for the sake of the church) thats not the reason why. Some children will be wearing €200-€300 dresses, chauffeured in flash cars. People on low incomes receive a grant so the child making his or her communion in that family can also wear nice clothes just like their friends. It has nothing to do with keeping up with appearances for the sake of the church.

When you said "the Irish Government forks out a grant to the tune of €300 for each childs first communion" that to me suggests all children receive a grant. The Ireland you are talking about is a very long time ago, Ireland is a very different place today. I couldn't care less about the church. The communion is a day for young children to dress up and enjoy themselves. I totally disagree with you when you say the money goes straight over the bar. Every family receives childrens allowance not only welfare claimants. People on a low income or on welfare receive help from the government in many ways, whether its housing, medical care or grants, they are the most vulnerable in society. You say (let them enjoy their innocence without realising the hellish country they are growing up in, and drink to that!!)You have alot of anger & hatred inside you Towngate. That can't be good.

The first communion rite is a outdated superstitious fiasco. Dressing little girls in white gowns - virgins presented to the church. Who came up with this perverted idea? We know who and the whole charade should be banned. Wake up Ireland. Catholicism has proven itself unworthy - get rid of it.

Bobby; Your civilised tone is refreshing, but please don't misrepresent me: I did not claim everyone got the grant - but it is ridiculous that poor kids are given it in order to keep up with appearances for the sake of the church. Besides we all know most of it goes straight over the bar of the nearest pub. Now: at the risk of sounding like something from "The West's Awake" blog; As an altar-boy for seven years, in a poor country parish,we were delighted to suddenly be issued with black 'runners' (properly 'Plimsolls'). Only when we were not allowed to wear them outside the Church, were our parents made aware that the poor shoes and sometimes hob-nailed boots we were sent to serve Mass in, were 'letting the show down'! Now: consider what the Church has revealed itself to be today - and you feel like crying all over again! Yes, indeed: a farcical Pantomime for the abuse of innocence. Bobby, at the risk of being a total bore, just let me add: Even at today's rates , a Welfare Claimant will have already received at LEAST a staggering €11,000.00 in Child Allowance alone for a single child from birth to the time it makes its First Communion. I agree; let them enjoy their innocence without realising the hellish country they are growing up in, and drink to that!!

Towngate those grants are for people on low incomes and welfare, not everyone gets it..... These kids do not care about the church ceremony. It has turned into a fashion show for them, chauffeured in flash cars and horse and carriage. So long as the kids have a nice day. Let them enjoy it. Don't be such an old bore

....another curious element of this thread is the fact that the Irish Government forks out a grant to the tune of €300 for each childs first communion. I am always saddened by the need for the children to have confessed their sins and be in a 'State of Grace'. What sins?! - poor little divils! - What a sad farcical pantomime it has all proved to be!

Very good plan Archbishop Martin. Those frilly lampshade mini wedding dresses are way over the top. Here in Australia my grandchildren have worn simple white dresses and veils and receive at Sunday Mass in a reverend and beautiful way. The family and community then celebrates together with lunch and a specially decorated big cake. Beats the Big Do when many come just to see the glam and don't turn up normally for Mass. The Dublin Diocese plan would cut out most of the hypocrisy and ignorance as reflected in the comments of goblin and katie below....

I have to agree that a child making their Fist Communion can be made just as special with during a regular Sunday Mass. The emphasis should be on the sacrament itself and their participation in it. However, after teaching this class for six yesrs I have seen too many children get all dressed up so beautiful on that "special" day, taking lots of pictures with family and friends and sadly not return to Mass again.

I've got to agree with gordon geblin. the church has collapsed in most of western Europe. Its Pope UNexcommunicating the holocaust denier biship Williamson to the church's unending terrible treatment of gay people is the reason..............The church knows totally well that gays want to get married in civil ceremonies, and the church knows that it cannot be forced in any way to do ceremonies against their beliefs or even recognize civil marriage ceremonies.............The absolutist pope is a blessing to the world, just he doesnt know it. So many catholics have already sung their version of Free at last, Free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last of Rome and the curia/ CDF tyrants.

Many religions end up more concerned about pomp & circumstance and the outfits you should wear than their core beliefs. That is why there is a growing cadre of non-religious, religious who believe in human values and conduct versus ceremony.

It's not about the church, it is about the kids. But anything the church can do to shoot themelves in the foot is fine by me.