53-year old Irish carpenter re-emigrates to New York, describes why he had to leave

Gael, NO ONE HERE CARES!! We love Jedward! We dont care where their folks are from! they are Irish as the rest of us born and raised here! It was said in jest! My nephew is in a gaelscoil with kids whose parents are from all over the world. Those kids are as Irish as my nephew, Donal! Some people are townies, others are from the sticks, common theme, they are irish! The Late late Show and appearing on the Toy Show or knowing someone who did, having TK red lemonade,learning irish in school,summers in the gaeltacht climbing out windows on the last night,hang sangages at Croker, Sandymount or Dollymount if you were a Nortsoider,the Angleus at 6pm,caravans in Courttown, the school tour of Dublin zoo and Newgrange all VERY VERY much part of the Irish childhood. You seem to think its just me who has this opinion! its not! just chatting about it in work today! I asked the question -Do you consider foreign born and raised kids of Irish migrants as Irish. Out of a table of 12, no one said yes! I take your points, really I do but its how it is. I know not everyone thinks the same but Im the one on here expressing my opinion!

@Ciara: First of all, Grimes can be an anglicised version of the GAELIC surnames Grehan and Gormley, and even if Jedward's surname is of English origin, what is their mam's surname? Or their paternal grandmother's maiden name? Somehow I doubt that their lineage is TOTALLY Anglo-Saxon, Ciara. Cop on! I would venture a guess that there are plenty of Gaelic surnames in their ancestry (probably the overwhelming majority). Yes, Jedward are Irish just as Seathrún Céitinn/Geoffrey Keating was. Curitiba represents another kind of Irishness and the unionists in the Six Counties represent yet another kind of Irishness. Someone from Ros Muc in Connemara's experience of being Irish is quite different to the Irish experience of someone from Moyross in Limerick. A fisherman from Inis Bó Finne in Donegal or Inis Meáin in the Aran Island's experience of being Irish is extremely different to that of a joyrider's from a Dublin housing estate. Come on, what could they possibly have in common (apart from supporting the Irish soccer team or watching RTÉ - a lot of the children of the diaspora do that, sure)? Yes, all are different but all represent various types of Irishness (albeit some arguably more diluted than others).

@Ciara: You made an allusion to PeterCUSA's references to the evolution of Irishness but you took it totally out of context and conveniently ignored important points he made in his post, namely: His sons have lived the majority of their years OUTSIDE of IRELAND and they will have a different perspective on being Irish than IF THEY HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP (IN IRELAND) “but it's NO LESS RELEVANT or REAL” (capitalisation mine). “We adapt” (i.e. the diaspora and their offspring; he's NOT referring to the Irish in Ireland). Something that Irish immigrants especially missed from home was bacon and cabbage. Corned beef was the closest thing they could get (or afford) to bacon in America and therefore corned beef and cabbage became a symbol of home to them and the tradition of eating it to remind them of Ireland was passed on to their children and grandchildren, etc. As Peter finishes his post: “Its a good example of something that is NOT from IRELAND but came from IRISH emigrants, in other words it's an EVOLUTION OF BEING IRISH” (capitalisation mine). You say “lots of Americans on here don't get the evolution thing!” but in fact it's YOU (and IBABs who think like you) who “DON'T GET THE EVOLUTION THING” (i.e. that Irishness EVOLVES OUTSIDE of Ireland).

You'll have none left by the end of the evening!

Ow! There goes another rib!

Jaysis if that confused you maybe you do compare to Jedward! (Joke!)

You're confusing me now Ciara. Or is this a deliberate tactic? ;)

One can’t but help feel for all the Barry McKinleys who need to leave Ireland to make a living while the immigrants come here to live off the Irish State’s generous welfare benefits. It galls me to see them all around my country.

Curitiba, Jedward, everyones favourite plebs. Surname Grimes, English name. They are Irish! Not English! How do you think you compare to them? Im not talking about intelligence level by the way. I work in Galway and Connemara and I have never been made feel like or been spoken to like an outsider. My dads family are from Monaghan, my mams from Wicklow, I spent most of my summers and holidays on the farms in Monaghan & Louth or in the gaeltacht so Im well used to travelling and moving around this country. Im a culchie jackeen, the best of both worlds and accepted by every Irish person I have ever met on my travels. I shouldnt have been up that late, I had to drive to Connemara at 6am this morning. Nice. PeterC-lots of Americans on here don't get the evolution thing! They get mad when they realise we don't all attend trad sessions every night, some of us aren't catholic, we have divorce, unwed parents and that we play rugby and have English friends. Its pathetic! Your kids will still be considered yanks when they are here like my own American cousins. They dont take offense to that though.

Irish identity evolves. I'm Irish and have lived outside of Ireland for a number of years. My sons, both born there have lived the majority of there years outside of Ireland. They will have a different perspective of being Irish, then if they had been brought up there, but's it's no less relevant or real. We adapt. A great example in the US, is the Corned Beef and Cabbage thing. Unknown in Ireland, where Bacon and Cabbage was the real deal, but as time went on, and people got more money, this wasn't a meal that people ate. But in the US, Corned Beef and Cabbage is still celebrated as the 'Irish meal'. Its a good example of something that is not from Ireland but came from Irish emigrants, in other words its an evolution of being Irish

Because I live in England. I can be Irish right here. I like it here. I live in an area that was full to the brim with Irish people of all generations, but now that has changed. I don't think it is necessary to live in Ireland to be Irish. For me it is about ancestry. Just ask any Indian or Chinese person. Ancestry is all, but language and religion are the glue that provides continuity from generation to generation. Sadly, first the language went, now the religion, so Irish identity will probably crumble now, unless there is some renaissance and cooperation between Irish people all over the world. I think this site goes some way in providing a link between Irish communities in different countries that would probably be unaware of each other. I am well in, not with the Irish in Ireland, but the irish community here. As for being an outsider, well, I would be that if I went to live in Manchester,due to a completely different accent being spoke there and you would be too if you went to live in rural Mayo. What are you doing up so late?

Curitiba, we could discuss this till we are blue in the face but if Irish people dont class you as one of our own, then youre pretty much not! We are a small community and we dont just take in strangers or invite people in. Thats something that is earned! I was told by a few people that we are great to tourists but when someone migrates here, we are a little less welcoming and more suspicious. Its probably true! But when youre in, youre well and truly in! Why arent you working or living here anyway?

I have no issues with people widening their options for work or travel which is why I have no issues with people moving to Ireland. Donegal and Cork are in the same country. Dublin and London are not. 'Ethnically' we are no different to the English! We are a separate land mass so we are Independent. Yorkshire is in England. I cant speak for the Brits nor will I pretend I can. They can sort their own political or geographical issues out.

So the distinction between us is wholly artificial, it makes as much sense as claiming that a person from Cork is a different nationality from a person from Donegal? So we are back where we started, albeit for a different reason. You are saying we are the same after all, but because there is no distinction between English and Irish people. So Ireland's claim for independence from England makes as much sense as a demand for independence by Yorkshire, say? And Connacht could secede for the same reason from Ireland, seeing as Irish independence is a completely arbitrary thing? If you are no different to english people, why do you need an independent homeland?

So they're going to be half-Irish and half-English, no matter where they are born. Nothing wrong with that. If they are born in NZ they are entitled to British and Irish citizenship as well as NZ. Widens their options in life, I'm sure you wouldn't object to that would you, Ciara?