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When Irish Catholics were hunted down

Anglican/Catholic dialogue has troubled past

By
NIALL O'DOWD,
Irish Central.com Publisher

Published Friday, November 20, 2009, 9:36 AM
Updated Sunday, November 22, 2009, 9:49 PM

 

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The Catholic Church was nearly hunted out of existence in Ireland. The Penal Laws were set up to end Catholicism in Ireland and force the population to become members of the established church; ie the
The Catholic Church was nearly hunted out of existence in Ireland. The Penal Laws were set up to end Catholicism in Ireland and force the population to become members of the established church; ie the Anglican church

Dr. Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, the leading Anglican church spokesman, has hit back at the Vatican for its recent efforts to win over Anglican converts.

Williams was speaking in Rome at Pontifical Gregorian University at an event to mark the birth of Dutch Cardinal Johannes Willebrands, the first head of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian unity.

In the conclusion to his speech, Williams said: “All I have been attempting to say here is that the ecumenical glass is genuinely half-full – and then to ask about the character of the unfinished business between us.

"For many of us who are not Roman Catholics, the question we want to put, in a grateful and fraternal spirit, is whether this unfinished business is as fundamentally church-dividing as our Roman Catholic friends generally assume and maintain.

“And if it isn’t, can we all allow ourselves to be challenged to address the outstanding issues with the same methodological assumptions and the same overall spiritual and sacramental vision that has brought us thus far?”

That all sounds very reasonable, but Williams is head of the "Established Church," which stopped at nothing in its day to end Catholicism as we now know it. They made Pope Benedict's efforts to win over Anglicans look like a child's tea party. Today's Anglicans may well be saying why "can't we all get along," but their predecessors were utterly savage in their fury toward Catholics

Anyone remember the Penal Laws? They were in place from 1695 to 1829 in Ireland. They were set up to end Catholicism in Ireland and force the population to become members of the established church: the Anglican church.

Among the laws were a price on the head of every priest; ₤5 as it was back then. The Anglican church even had their own priest-hunters, who were given large rewards to find priests and have them hanged. Who ya gonna call? Priest-hunters!

There was ₤5 on the head of every schoolteacher as well, in case he taught the Irish ways and the Irish language. Catholics were also barred from every Government job, from lawyer to tax collector to lowly steward if they did not denounce their religion and convert.

In addition, Catholics could not hold land worth more that 30 shillings or a horse worth more than ₤5. During the Famine, millions faced starvation unless they agreed to literally "take the soup," convert to the established religion, in which case they got fed.

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Posted by Watchman on Nov 21, 2009, 01:35 PM EST
Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Will you ever let go of the past? But since we dealing with old grievances, let me say this: the Danes have got away with it for far too long. When I think of what those Pagans did to our monasteries in the ninth and tenth centuries, it fair makes my blood boil. We should march on the Danish embassies in dublin and Washington and remind them that we gave them a bloody nose at Clontarf and, by Christ, we can do it again if we have to. Who's with me?
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Posted by Niall O'Dowd on Nov 20, 2009, 05:24 PM EST
I think the fact is that Catholics via the Inquisition and Anglicans via the penal laws have much to be ashamed of in their history.That does not mean we should ignore it. Those who reinvent the past merely perpetuate it. The pope has been widely castigated for his move towards getting Anglicans to join. I merely pointed out that Anglicans themselves are not innocents here and no kumbyya adherents .They know quite a bit about coerceive religions.
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Posted by roseofengland on Nov 20, 2009, 04:14 PM EST
Hello Niall, I'm English and Catholic with Irish/French ancestry so I am either totally mixed up or else in the enviable position of being able to see all sides of the argument. English Catholics had a very raw deal from the Reformation up to the Act of Emancipation (can't remember the date, about 1835?) and there is still some discrimination but those who wanted to "reform" the church also suffered. Nowadays as belief in Christianity diminishes, so does the animosity between different denominations. Which is better - strong faith in Jesus Christ and hatred between Catholic and Protestant or weaker Christianity and more understanding and co-operation? I don't know. I believe that power corrupts and history distorts. It seems that this is particularly true of Church. So perhaps it's better just to accept one another, thanking God that we live in a world where we are able to be independent of the state religion.My husband a committed Anglican and myself, a devout Catholic, lived happily supporting two churches for over 30 years. He became a Catholic a few years ago (Deo Gratias) but we still share our faith with our Anglican, Methodist and Baptist friends without any problem. Let's live and let live.
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Posted by solidoak on Nov 20, 2009, 03:43 PM EST
God forbid anyone should follow you dredging back to the ugly past, Niall,and start talking about the Roman Catholic Inquisition. What good is that going to achieve today? This is not the article of a peacemaker of Northern Ireland as you have been. Not much Christian charity here.
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Posted by Reikidee on Nov 20, 2009, 01:39 PM EST
Holding on to the past hinders forward progress in anything. As horrendous as the history has been between the Church founded by a hedonistic madman and the Roman Catholic church, it is time to live in the PRESENT and find common ground.
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Posted by CaliforniaShamrock on Nov 20, 2009, 01:28 PM EST
Lets get practical - good luck to the married priests coming over to Rome trying to support a family on a Catholic priest's salary - if they want to continue as a priest.
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Posted by dessieglynn on Nov 20, 2009, 01:21 PM EST
I suggest the Archbishop reads Edward Rutherfurd's book "The Rebels of Ireland"
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Posted by irishmexican43 on Nov 20, 2009, 01:13 PM EST
you cannot understand a people without knowing their history. and to learn their history is a sign of respect. nobody is saying he have to hate the Anglicans or the English for what their forefathers did. But let's not forget. If we don't learn from history we could repeat it.
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Posted by KMcSinger on Nov 20, 2009, 12:51 PM EST
Well, if the Irish can get along with the English after years of persecution, surely the Catholics can get on with the Protestants. The history is very interesting, but it is history after all.
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Posted by morganink on Nov 20, 2009, 12:18 PM EST
Is it possible to walk a moderate course, moving forward into potentially healing relationships between former enemies, while keeping a sense of awareness? I don't know the answer to that question, but nurturing old grudges doesn't seem to be working, if by "working" one means living productive lives and refusing to be energized by old feuds. "Does anyone remember?" is a dangerous opening phrase, inviting us to dust off old grudges and injuries. Not the way I choose to live. And it is a choice.
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Posted by semperfidelis on Nov 20, 2009, 11:58 AM EST
Good article, Niall
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Posted by bdickins on Nov 20, 2009, 11:09 AM EST
Let's all try to remember that religion in any form is nothing more than a belief system, and every system has tried to force other systems to change to theirs. Mr. O'Dowd is conveniently forgetting that the Catholic religion had its share of "ugly history" (can you say "Bloody Mary?") Not to mention Henry VIII himself; let's not forget that he was a devout Catholic from birth and truly continued to see himself as such throughout his life, keeping Catholic pageants and theology, with the exception of bowing to the Pope. He still believed in Mass and the raising of the host; he just wanted to keep Catholic money for himself instead of sending it to Rome. By seeing himself as the head of the church in England he could get divorces whenever he wanted! He was prepared to arrest and execute his 6th wife, Katherine Parr, for her "heretic" (aka Lutheran) beliefs, and she saved herself by effacing herself and her beliefs to his face while remaining committed to her own in private. So let's get our history straight, Mr. O'Dowd. The Catholic Church's history is anything but squeaky clean.
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Posted by RthrBHistCorr on Nov 20, 2009, 11:07 AM EST
egscruggs7929: I am curious, do you say the same thing to people who commemorate the Holecaust? Do yo say that to people who, a hundred years after the Emancipation Proclaimation, still speak of the evils of slavery? Do you say that to Native American who remember Wounded Knee? "“A nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it.” " -Winston Churchill
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Posted by RthrBHistCorr on Nov 20, 2009, 11:03 AM EST
The history of the british empire has been one of divide and conquer: Sikh vs Hindu, Zulu vs Boer, Highlander vs Lowlander Scot, Irish Catholic vs Irish Protestant. While laudeable sentiments the good Dr. can't just say "Why can't we just get along" and ignore the centuries of the playing of the "Orange Card" by men like Churchill. Though likely a well meaning man, I somewhat resent after centuries of opression by the church that Dr. Williams represents that he know throws the onus for peace on someone else. As painful as it may be, the first step to a cure is an admission of the policies of how we got here rather than hiding the past with platitudes and the singing of Kum-bi-ya.
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Posted by carrickcourt on Nov 20, 2009, 11:03 AM EST
Niall, while I agree that the former "Established" Church has a horrible record in Irish history for Catholics, Presbyterians, and other "Dissenters" times have changed a bit I think. Being a "dissenter" non believer I always find it amazing how rotten people have been to "others" based religion throughout human history.
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Posted by egscruggs7929 on Nov 20, 2009, 10:31 AM EST
That was yesterday, this is TODAY. Move on.
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Posted by NyackGal on Nov 20, 2009, 10:21 AM EST
Interesting that the good Archbishop neglected to go back in history to this period.Perhaps he thinks such a good job was done expunging the memories!
 


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