Prince William’s royal wedding a target for IRA dissidents

sirpeter - well, if you vote for the shinners because yr working class, i can understand that, however, mate, it is a wasted vote (no disrespect). i voted for the alliance party for the last 5 years, but am staring to think that this isn't going to cause major change here, they do well in local elections, but they don't stand a chance of getting elected, the votes to polarised for that. i am a working class tory, but again, with an incumbent tory party already here (OUP), there's no chance of them getting a foothold. I had a meeting with an ex-loyalist group last week in 1 of our exchange visits, they don't seem to think that there will be a major resumption of violence unless the RIRA cause a spectacular bombing with a major loss of life or HM is assassinated in ROI, the only blot on their landscape is the irish falling over themselves to make her welcome (which i think is highly likely) given the the different counties vying for her attention & that they may have to be more reponsive to closer co-operation with their near neighbours in future. As 1 of them said, seamus, let's hope there is a repeat of the republican antics at the love parade, we can throw that back at the ROI as a cold house for us, i said that won't happen & if the baron will have to be careful about overly critising her visit with so many in favour.

(cont)Some young couples who borrowed,lost their job and can't service the loan,this includes older people to who remortgaged and lost their jobs. At the present rate 1000 people are leaving Ireland a week or 52,000 a year. I reckon over the next 5 years 200,000 will emigrate,mostly young people with no ties. Seamus..lol..I'm a Sinn Fein man..I never voted for Bertie,but I did take advantage of the easy money.Sensible people still have that money. I'm not a bit worried about payback time..I'll let you into a little secret..People who have money don't feel the pinch,because money increases in value when there is a lack of it. As goods and labour prices fall,I get more bang for my money in the bank, then i did 2 years ago..ha ha ha. Simple economics Seamus.But I vote Sinn Fein because I see how unfair the system is. Sinn Fein has to look after the working class or they will lose votes.

FallsRNat..Well you at least answered my question that not everyone would be happy under the British banner.If that was true I'd say leave partition there. Well saying it was European money is correct,but it was private money not taxpayer's. In all fairness Seamus we did make money ourselves...Our exports were booming and even to-day it's the only bright spark,exports are doing well still. I agree alot of people were fooled into thinking it would never end.Or more then likely they turned a blind eye and wished it wouldn't end. But you are not talking to one of those blind people here. A couple of years ago when the banks started giving out 100% mortgages,I knew the end was coming then.But if you were a young couple who wanted to buy a house but didn't have a penny saved, because they didn't know the meaning of the word savings or money,would you not take the money? My own kids and other kids where i live have the same problem. They leave their Nintendo's Ds's out in the rain during the summer.My eldest left her 600 euro laptop out on the garden furniture last summer and a shower of rain made sh*t of it. When I confronted her,she looked disappointed for about 3 seconds and then when I got mad..She looked confused and said calmly ..Can't we just buy another one.Then they keep begging you again to buy one a few weeks later. It's not easy to say No!! when you have the money and they bullsh*t you by saying they will be more careful. Anyone born in the last 25 to 30 years,most just got what they wanted,because the money started to flow by 1990 onwards. Seamus, here is the reality of those who are going to suffer. Kids who are coming out of school or collage who don't have connections to get a job,they either wait or emigrate.Y

sirpeter - believe me, i could stand up on a box in the falls rd with a megaphone, with my family & friends, i won't be the only 1 sucking food through a straw, nothing like a bit of intercine tribal violence, the prods will be loving it. The celtic tiger was built on european money, lots of paddies made money for sure off the back of this, but i draw yr attention to the EU's only annual reports to see the subsidies shifted to the ROI. FF came a calling in 1992 & tried their snake oil charms on the SDLP as a way of seeing off the shinners. To us battle weary, but dour northern irish, it all seemed to a bit of smoke & mirrors, we could all see the money being feted around, but nobody could quite see where it was all coming from. Warren Buffet was in London in 99, complaining about the banking loans being a giant pyramid scheme & most of us 'brits', i use the word collectively, could see that the election of Blair, brought the 'vivian nicholson' school of economics into play - yes, spend, spend, spend & damn the boom & bust which wee gordy said he had abolished. i know it may come as a surprise to u southerners, but we know when we are being sold a 'pup', FF & New Labour were cut from the same cloth - let me tell u a true tale about the englishman, ulsterman & NI RC. We all put down in an envelope where we thought the british economy would be after 10 years of blair rule - the answer, we all predicted bust. i am suprised that most of u southerners were taken in by bertie, there is always a payback time & youse lot are just about to begin yours.

FF didn't try to entice anybody in the north. That's your imagination. The only enticement FF did was the GFA trying to get power sharing and stop the trouble ye were having. Seamus NI might as well be a million miles away from me..We had no interment without trial,checkpoints,soldiers,bombings,kneecappings,Duncrees,discrimation.ect..I can see the attractiveness of living under the british banner over the last 40 years. Are you from the North at all!! It's thanking Sinn Fein you should be for getting a fairer society and making the prods see sense.As a Catholic before the PIRA ye had nothing,been kicked around by the prods. No!! Seamus there was no advantage living under the british banner if you were a Catholic and you know it. I'd hardly say 15 years ago is playing historical mindgames.I don't play mind games..I just state fact's.On the Celtic Tiger. Powerful people in Ireland and Europe do deals Seamus.The likes of you and me don't get a say in those deals.All money is made off the backs of the taxpayer..BUT that was not taxpayers money,you are wrong there.The Celtic tiger was private money (ie rich investors).So the celtic tiger economy was not the Irish peoples celtic tiger..It just happened to happen here..For reasons only powerful people know..Seamus..It's not WE firmly believe that we are better off in the UK..It's YOU firmly believe.Stand up on a box Seamus with a megaphone next Saturday night on the Falls road and tell them that...You can tell me what the hospital food is like in Derry. Seamus my arguments are based on facts..Whereas yours are mostly based on speculation and turning a blind eye to facts. It like you stating as fact--- taxpayers money built the celtic tiger--totally wrong---tax goes to a government that's the peoples money---Private money built the Celtic Tiger.Bondholders Seamus Bondholders (A bondholder is generally defined as an individual)

sirpeter the celtic tiger economy was built with european taxpayers money - that is a fact, the boom came from the irish govt allowing the property bubble to run unchecked & the banks to invest their money into highly unsustainable property investments. when the irish economy came crashing down, their was no economic recovery as the countries reserves couldn't contain the debt. FF tried to entice the catholic pop here in the north with the joys of unparalled investment, however, they obviously didn't feel a pressing need to become reunited. If u come up to the falls/markets area, most of us are happy to have a job & keep the roofs over our heads, we see the advantages of living under the british banner, it is highly unlikely that the IR will be given the unprecendented levels of subsidy from the EU again in living memory & until the IR offers a viable alternative to the NI RCs than their won't be a UI. We may pay lip service to the call for a UI, but at the end of the day, we firmly believe that we are better off in the UK, until u change that fact, then playing historical mindgames, just doesn't cut it.

FallsRNat..I'll leave ya off with the use of that awful term. Seamus..You can't judge a country because of temporary economic crisis. I have no doubt the Republic will come through this crisis no problem,no matter what happens.It will take a bit of time and I think this country will be even stronger..All this crap is just all about bringing Ireland back in line with Europe.Standard of living was away to high compared to Europe.On those counties if it was 5 years ago would you be so confident they wouldn't vote to join the republic. The would have jumped at the chance and even now they still would..They are not stupid.They know things change. You know i read recently that Catholics are still twice as likely to be unemployed as prods.Anyway you can't judge an economy at it's low point. This deflation had to happen.Three bedroom semi's were nearly hitting the half million mark,people were going on 3 holidays a year.I brought a second house for 450,000 and payed it off in 5 years. Two teachers I play cards with have an extra house, which they are all renting..So am I...That's the way it was down here..That had to stop. I thank the master race,they made me alot richer and I'm still rich.Unfortunately those who over extended themselves are in trouble as well as the less well off. If Tyrone,Armagh,Fermanagh,South Down and Derry city and Newry had joined the Republic 10 years ago. A hell of alot of cleaver middle class prods and cats would be alot richer now..This economic crisis is only hitting the poor and the stupid.

sirpeter, i wasn't talking about the british isles in political terms, i was using the geographical version instead of endless writing the 5 country names. there will be no countries left in 50 yrs time, they will be regions of a greater whole. U talk of a UI, but the IR has already sold its soul to a greater european ideal & memebrship of the euro, u don't have any economic/political independence. The master race that dev favoured in WW2 is already running yr country. The areas of NI that u describe have a catholic majority, but i doubt if there was a free vote that they would all (if any) join a UI now, as economically there is no material benefit for them to do that. For all of its problems, the UK has the advantage of an independent exchange rate & that is truly a good thing to have, either IR joins the sterling or not, is irrelevant from the brits point of view, however, if, as historically, the irish are going to get all uppity & start whingeing about 1916 & all that, they will move on without you.

(cont)Now let's say for argument sake..Tyrone,Armagh,Fermanagh,South Down and Derry city and Newry. Which in fairness have a Catholic majority and would want to throw their lot in with the south. It seems only England and the Irish Republic are more or less self sufficient. You know Ireland got nothing from the EU that we didn't pay back in resources,the amount of fish alone taken from our seas is less then the amount given to Ireland by the EU. Like take our Gas and Oil..Read this!!According to the Petroleum Affairs Division, (PAD), current estimates indicate at least 10 billion barrels of oil lie off the west coast Ireland. The Irish Independent stated that energy exports have the potential to transform Ireland into a “new Middle East.”In a recent publication by the Petroleum Affairs Division, (PAD), entitled Atlantic Ireland, it stated: “The potential shows volumes of over 130 billion barrels of oil and 50 trillion cubic feet of gas.” The Dunquin gas field which is 200km off the coast of Kerry contains an “astonishing” 25 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 4,130 million barrels of oil. According to the Irish Independent this alone would meet Ireland’s gas needs – at present consumption levels – for the next 62 years.Further up the coast is the Spanish Point field, which is 200km off the coast of Clare. The field has known reserves of one and a quarter trillion cubic feet of gas and 206 million barrels of oil.. The drilling of wells will start next year and field production field will start in 2011.Inland lies the Lough Allen Basin – an area which was largely famous as a bog. But now the area has been “notionally” contains 9.4 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.5 billion barrels of oil. What exactly will the NP's contribute. The auld shipbuilding and Linin trade is in a bit of a slump.

FallsRNat..Sorry..British isles has to go..I'm not British.That term is unacceptable. Also 3.5 counties in NI and two cities would vote to be represented by Dublin.Tyrone,Armagh,Fermanagh,South Down and Derry city and Newry. They must have that choice. This would stop Sinn Fein or the Unionist's real and not perceived ill treatment of Nationlist's.I'll concede that west Belfast has to come under NP control....No Sinn Fein didn't.They campaigned to have a greater say in how the Republic is run..The want to be the biggest party North and South. Comforting isn't it.

A united ireland won't exist as there will be no need for it, all countries will have their own regional govt, with each of the 5 electing senior MPs to an upper house, sited on a rota basis in each different state. there will be boundaries to divide the states if they wish to raise local taxes, but harmonise across the UK & Ireland would seem the best bet. it also may serve the 'british isles' (geographical sense) govts to be independent when trying to resolve world issues - otherwise there would be a common passport, currency, freeflow of people, goods etc across the 5 states, so we wouldn't want to take a backward step by trying to impose a govt on any of us that isn't acceptable to the people as a whole. I guess that the downside for the shinners would be trying to impose a one state solution on the North & finding out that a referndum would have to be agreed by all of the voters in the british isles. A 1 state solution is colonist, old hat & would be seen for what it is, the shinners trying to treat the NI prods as serfs in reply to all of the years of their perceived ill treatment. sirpeter u will find that while people did vote for the shinners, they didn't do on a camoaign for a UI, which wasn't even mentioned by Gerry & co in the election campaign.

FallsRNat..Ok..£12 billion it is..You know the figure. Seamus, watch Sinn Fein swing more to the right as they gain more seat's,but continue to hold on to the working class vote. FF gave to everyone,that's why they were the biggest party. But good FF politicians let their dumb sons/daughters carry on in a job they were to thick for,and lost touch with the electorate. A good party will always get the working man's vote first and work up. Sinn Fein are no more Marxist then Groucho Marx. Well Seamus..I could sell all those good things to the Sinn Fein leadership and to the whole Republic..With all these closer ties in economy,health care,sharing resources,English speaking people,peace, security & friendship..One big happy family,each supporting the other in friendship and for the common good and support in times of war...We have no need for PARTITION then do we? We can have a United Ireland,England,Scotland and Wales. A New Act of Union.Known as the Anglo-Celtic and British peoples Alliance..What do you think Seamus?

sirpeter - the unofficial subsidies last year were - Wales £3.8b, Scotland £9b, NI £7b, however, that doesn't take into account the subsidies for the following NI electricity, water, council tax, UB40, civil service, training, security, environment, tourism, sea defence, psni,stormont etc the true total is about £12b, give or take. Ireland needs stability & a lot of it, FG will see out the lifetime of the parliament, Labour will take 6 ministerial portfolios & join the coalition. Yes, pain ahead, but i really don't see the shinners as an economic force, marxist principles don't work in free market economies. The realignment of Irish euros into sterling is an achievable target & makes sound commercial sense, the UK has an economy running into hundreds of billions of pounds, the deficit of anglo-irish etc is a wart on their little finger. If closer economic ties meant more focused education & training for our children, more economic independence outside the euro, job swaps, closer farming ties, no border exchange rates than we have to look at the bigger picture. The brits in times of adversity pull together & in the latest opinion polls more people in scotland, wales are in favour of the union then ever, adding SI's 3m pop, located on their own land with a similar work ethic has its upside. so we won't get a UI, but what we do get is peace, security & friendship.

FallsRNat..Well there's already talk in Europe about giving Ireland a better deal..How better I don't know. But we will know soon enough. I think Labour are making a mistake going into power with FG..I think they should hold their nerve. They could lead a very strong left wing opposition. When I think about it. Sinn Fein is going to tear strips off Labour,because there is going to be unmerciful cuts in the next two years.Cut's they can blame FF for...But they can only get away with that for so long. Enda is looking forward to been in power for the 100 Anniversary of the 1916 Rising. He might not be in power for that. Interesting times ahead.You'll be happy to know Sinn Fein have lost a seat tonight in Wicklow. Still 14 seat's was a good result. Enda has hit the ground running,so we'll just have to wait. By the way from what I could find the UK subsidy to NI £4.5 Billion. All those good handy security jobs have got to be going. 40% of NI prod workforce were in the civil service in 1992..Tell your prod friends it's about time they found a real job. No wonder the Brit's have to shell out..Only half the workforce is in the real world. Most of them must be Catholic. FG are cutting the civil service by 80 thousand..No wonder the prods don't want a UI..They would have to work for a change..The more I understand about NI.Instead of finding some fair justifiable reason's in favour for the UP's..The more sympathy I have for the Nationalists. Seamus the place is a joke.Only that the Nationalists consider NI their home. I'd recommend they move out..Anywhere..NI doesn't appear to be economically viable at all. Enda's slogan "Get Ireland Working" must be looked at in horror by the proddy civil service.

sirpeter - UK subsidy to NI all told is close to £12b a year, there is no way in the next decade that IR will be able to take this debt on, if the IR joins sterling, then the UK could swallow the irish debt, closer economic cooperation would be a consequence. it really is irrelevant if SF gained more seats, they will win power outright as there are too many votes they will never get from the mainsdtream parties - FG/FF/Labour, the best they could hope for is a coalition, but with who, FG is out of the question as a Tory party would never share with marxist party & Labour will never get 50 seats. The irony for SF would be that if there was a UI & the prods stayed in the north, then you will see a combined DUP/OUP (tories) in power with FG.