Philadelphia Archbishop slams Pro-choice Democrats ‘embrace’ of abortion - VIDEO
Abortion requires ‘absolute adherence on the part of Catholics’ says Philadelphia archbishop
Published Friday, October 26, 2012, 7:28 AM
Updated Friday, October 26, 2012, 9:25 AM
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BigDaddy | Oct 28, 2012, 10:19 AM EDT
Gearoid, you are as bad as the Archbishop. You try to seem thoughtful but then you assume to know my thoughts, demonize me to make your points and, in doing so, prove my point FOR me. Ask a psychologist what makes someone lash out in defense without knowing the facts or even asking what the facts are. The Bible IS Bronze Age mythology. And if you are so concerned about children, what did God tell Joshua to do when the walls of Jericho came down? If, as some of the GOP say, rape is God's will and the children born of the act of violence are precious, what about the brutalized mother? Is this what God had planned for her and should she pray for more "blessings"? I am a great-grandfather, a Republican and someone who has lived long enough to know that if Christ came back today, he would vomit when he saw what was being done in his name by the Catholic Church. Cathedrals everywhere and in the shadow of those buildings starving children.You see, like the AB, you seem to forget the history of your church, the horrors it has perpetrated, and the unChristian attitude many of its hierarchy possess. You seem willing to ignore all the things the church does wrong, highlight all the things is does right and expect anyone who disagrees with you to listen to your attacks as if they were well thought out. Do you think feeding hungry children occasionally absolves the church hierarchy from ignoring the massive sexual crimes that have been perpetrated by the priests it hides away? I find that much of the Christianity that emanates from the Catholic church does so in spite of the church hierarchy. But you have a pleasant Sunday.
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Gearoid4 | Oct 27, 2012, 09:05 PM EDT
One should not be naive enough to believe that either the Democrats or GOP will remain totally faithful to a political program influenced by Christian principles. Realistically one should remain hopeful but skeptical that "pro-life" issues would be advanced and that such indispensable institutions as marriage would be safeguarded in it's well-understood form. If one used this criteria, the GOP would come out the better of the two as political activists who are "pro-life" have been effectively frozen out of the Democratic party. In effect, it has become a "cold house" for traditional, Catholic, Christian values.
@BigDaddy,
Your caricatural depiction of Catholics and the Catholic Church reveals more about your "progressive" agenda than it does about true, Catholic and Christian values. By "progressive" I suppose you mean advancing the "pro-choice" or should I say, pro-abortion agenda and the extension of marriage to include same-sex couplings. Anything to the contrary, is medievalist or "bronze-age" as you call it. So respect for life from conception to natural death, and support for marriage in it's well-understood form, is regressive and "reactionary"? Whereas in truth, these concepts are more radical than the progressive agenda of the so-called liberal elites, as traditional Catholic precepts sets the bar that much higher in terms of human flourishing and development.
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BigDaddy | Oct 27, 2012, 08:09 PM EDT
The archbishop starts out by telling a lie. He claims that people would have thought Republicans would have supported abortion and Democrats wouldn't have. Given the fact that Republicans have always been more reactionary and Democrats more thoughtful and progressive in their thinking, the AB needs to lie or else the rest of his story makes little sense. His talk of abandoning the Democratic party makes no sense unless he paints them as villains. Johnny Carson used to say,"If you buy the premise,you buy the bit." Meaning, if you can accept that a rabbi, a penguin and a Martian walk into a bar...then you shouldn't have a problem with what comes after. According to Chaput, the martyrs were Catholics. I would posit for your inspection the radical theory that the people who gave their lives for Christ were not Catholics, they were Christians. Something Chaput is not. Since having to admit that they are predators, the Catholic Church has had to side with the Republicans to keep from becoming irrelevant. They cannot preach caring for the poor to a political party that reveres Ayn Rand.The Catholic Church sees the handwriting on the wall, as many others have, and know that the political paradigm is changing. Therefore, aligning yourself with people who claim to have a belief in Christ, despite all their actions to the contrary, is the best way to preserve what is left of your status. Any group that believes Bronze Age mythology should determine 21st century political reality is obviously not Christian.
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WoundedKnee | Oct 27, 2012, 02:45 PM EDT
bunkerisland: "hypocritical institution telling the rest of us how to vote". He's not telling you how to vote, you clown, he's advising Catholics. If you're not a Catholic pay as much heed to him as you would to a pronouncement from an Ayatollah. Why are you so obsessed with him if you're not a Catholoic? In other words, mind you own damn business and we Catholics will mind ours.
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BigDaddy | Oct 27, 2012, 01:55 PM EDT
Phlutie...let me see if I have your idea right. Chaput, who doesn't blame the Church for hiding pedophiles from justice, blames the media for talking about it. You agree with him. He is to be compared to St. Patrick. Yet it is the "liberal elite" that seeks to confuse the AB's message and confuse the faithful. So, the followers of Christ should not worry themselves with "social justice", they should stay informed so not to be confused by the liberal elite telling the world that priests are raping children and raping children is not the problem, telling on priests is the problem. Did I understand you correctly?
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eiriamach | Oct 27, 2012, 11:45 AM EDT
As the 'scare quotes' in Antoinette Kelly's title hint, to leave people free to choose is not the same as to "embrace" their choices. Unless they are free to choose, their actions have no moral value whatever. It makes no sense to praise me for doing some good that the law coerces me to do; I was not free to do otherwise. It makes no sense to blame me for doing some evil that the law coerces me to do; I was not free to do otherwise. Do anti-choice laws remove evil from our lives? No, anti-choice laws deprive us of virtue. The only moral actions or immoral actions are those we freely choose to take. Without freedom to *choose* the good, morality is impossible for us. So the Dems have it right when they "embrace" freedom. Freedom makes moral and immoral choices possible, and if you think we can have the one without enabling the other, you need to study Genesis.
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jetsnoone | Oct 27, 2012, 10:33 AM EDT
So.......what you're saying LOURO is that you're o.k. with late term abortion as a matter of law. Have you ever stood up for something important or do you always cower behind some immoral law? The Archbishop is right, we have Catholic politicians out there who will take blood money to keep their jobs...not most of us Catholics, Archbishop, don't lose faith in all of us. Me personally, I don't vote for abortionists whether they are Dem or Repub.....
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eiriamach | Oct 27, 2012, 09:14 AM EDT
Jacers, the USA is not a Catholic theocracy. On Election Day we will vote either for more constraints on liberty or for preserving and extending liberty. The Gospels tell us to preserve and extend 'the freedom of the children of God.' "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matt 11:28-30): "Easy" and "light" because Christ calls for an end to all our oppression of each other, an end to waging cultural wars against those we presume are "bad" simply because they're different and we disapprove of their private choices. Similarly, in the words of Emma Lazarus that adorn our Statue of Liberty, "Give me your tired, your poor,/ Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." The American goal is government limited in its powers, government that protects equally the rights and privacy of all of us in choices that affect no one else. I support separation of church and state BECAUSE freedom from oppressive laws about sexuality and reproduction makes possible the "freedom of the children of God," whereas laws constructed by churchmen according to their sectarian sense of morality makes that glorious freedom impossible.
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jacersagain | Oct 27, 2012, 01:00 AM EDT
Sorry alisann - I think that what most people, even most Catholics, forget is that our Christ, the Messiah, gave out certain messages, for all - including politicians and voters - who came to live on this planet after He died, to follow. The Messiah’s messages were and remain very clear and uncompromising against evil, just as they were uncompromising about the sacrifice of love, exampled by His death on the Cross. I think this A/Bishop has not let down on Christ’s messages, or on His flock or on His World-wide community and I applaud the A/Bishop for speaking out so strongly. The Christ of us all on our Earth basically said “Love God foremost and love one another as I have loved you” and thereby gain the rewards of your afterlife. If this is true, then what the A/Bishop said can’t be faulted, however Catholics or “other” Christian people may be inclined to think, or be abusively misled by many, esp by the media people, and by blind faith. I say stick with the Christ’s messages as given by this leader of Philadelphian and other Catholics and I hope his message extends to pervade through America’s false political messages.
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alisaann | Oct 26, 2012, 07:21 PM EDT
PLEASE, GET RELIGION "OUT OF POLITICS".....it has NO PLACE there....just as politics has NO PLACE IN RELIGION....i'm sick of religious people telling others HOW they should live their lives...CLEAN OUT THE SICK CILD RAPING LEADER from the church, before telling others what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies....also, START TAKING CARE OF THE POOR AND SICK.....the way GOD would want you to.
alisa
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DanOLoingsigh | Oct 26, 2012, 06:41 PM EDT
Just wonder if there was ever any risk of this guy getting pregnant after a rape, he may show a modicum of 'Christian' charity to other victims?
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eiriamach | Oct 26, 2012, 05:23 PM EDT
Chaput's transgression in telling Catholics how to vote (or how not to vote) violates federal law on tax-exempt institutions. If he's going to engage in politics, his churches should pay the same tax bill everyone else who preaches politics pays, and then the public will see his "church" for what it really is, a right-wing political lobbying organization hell-bent on depriving women of control over their reproductive lives and conning parents out of control over the welfare of their children.
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joreilly | Oct 26, 2012, 03:11 PM EDT
Sorry your Eminence !!!I do not promote ABORTION for ABORTION sake BUT there are times when it has to be done LEGALLY AND ETHICALLY IN A HOSP. and not in a BACK-ALLEY.
I hope ypu don't believe that "....RAPE IS AN ACT Of GOD " ????
Now ,with regard that our "CATHOLIC FAITH " should have precedence over all else,even being AMERICAN ? Is this not the biggest criticism we have of our JEWISH BRETHERN.
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bunkerisland | Oct 26, 2012, 02:53 PM EDT
One gets very tired of hearing these rather obese men, dressed in black, that represent a rather hypocritical institution telling the rest of us how to vote, never mind make decisions about our personal bodies. Meanwhile they need some basic training on how to make a bed, wash their own clothes, cook a meal and cut the front lawn without depending upon maids and handymen to carry their baggage, literally and figuratively.
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