Sláinte! Feile Na Marbh - the origins of Halloween

I can only speak for Sligo where I grew up. We had no 'trick or treat'. First place I saw it was on emigrating to America. We did duck for apples and coins and went out making mischief (in imitation of the spirits of Samhain I suppose) The 'celebration' of Halloween that I see now owes much more to American influence and commercialism than the spirit of Samhain. For more on this read: 'Echoes of a Savage Land' (http://www.sligoheritage.com/books.htm)

I knew you wouldn’t contribute anything; that was my point George: you’re a hypocrite. You filled a couple of posts with your usual rants about ‘the modern Irish’ abandoning their rich lore etc., and despite other posters contributing examples you contributed none. You are a proven liar and there is no doubt in my mind that you have lied in your posts below (I’m sure others will draw the same conclusion). The only thing I offered were my experiences of Halloween and how it is practiced where I live. In contrast you can only contribute rants based on ignorance and your own prejudices ‘backed up’ by IC articles.

kinvara--you've gone from lore to bore. You are an utter fool if you think I'm going to write notes on Halloween lore and traditions for empty-heads such as you. Enough already. But if you again try your stupid stunt of pointing a Leprechaun fantasy for American readers, know that I'll be here to offer them reality, not raimeis. By the way, how many Poles made it to the Tlachtga "ceremonies" this year? What do you mean, you don`t know where Tlachtga is?

George: I know where the festival is located, that is why I thought it was strange that your ‘cousin’ came from the same county; the fact that you mention this coincidence again only confirms my suspicion. I never said Irish people ALWAYS used the phrase "trick or treat" however it has been used in Ireland for decades (not just fifteen years as you stated). I also made the subtle point that neither did the Irish ALWAYS make Barmbrack, and the point that it was the ‘modern Irish’ that revived the ancient festival in Meath. Please read my detailed posts carefully and you will learn something. You say that you ‘don’t blame immigrants for anything’… well then why do you drag them into your rant about the ‘death’ of the Irish Halloween? Oh yes George, you are the ‘keeper’ of Irish lore… did it ever occur to you George that the books you have read have been read by other people too? Some of us have been lucky enough to hear these stories passed down. In any event, despite my polite request you have yet to relay some of this Irish lore that you apparently keep alive. I at least wrote about some, as did another poster; you on the other hand offered nothing which makes you a hypocrite. So instead of continuing your aimless rant, why don’t you relay some of the lore that you are keeping alive? That would be more welcome.

Your an idiot georgy boy I proved your ranting were incorrect. You are too blinded by your hate of the Irish to be rational go bother your trailer thash neighbours with your illconceived drivvel and take a bottle of hootch with you I'm sure your are in a constant state of drunkeness.

What scares you, kinvara and your equally ignorant buddies (e.g the fool who has his brains down under) is that I know Ireland, and I know the United States. When people in our country ask me about Ireland I always tell them the unvarnished truth--the good, the bad and--in your case--the plain stupid. And only an utter nitwit like kinvara could claim that I "blame the immigrants". I don`t blame immigrants for anything, in fact I don't even blame fools like kinvra for anything other than being a stupid bore! The knowledge of Irish Halloween lore is of course, despite what the kinvara klown tells us, quite rare. Kinvara certainly doesn`t possess it. Proof for example is the fact he even suggested that Irish people have always used the phrase "trick or treat". Of course anyone who knows anything realizes the phrase is an American import, just like 100% of the Irish Halloween of today. As to kinvara not believing I have a relative working in Meath, this fool kinvara doesn't even know that the Festival he keeps trying to tell us about, the one no one in Ireland has heard of, was actually held--guess where--in Meath! You`re a chump kinvara, stop wasting our time here with your bigoted nonsense.

You say I haven’t made one substantive point, but the truth is I have made plenty. That’s why you are descending into rants and blaming the immigrants and misspelling Shakespeare –twice! I have spoken a little about the lore you so love to talk about, as have others, yet you have passed on nothing -hypocrite. You say that what I describe is a ‘sham bogus’ Halloween, yet all I have done on this and the other thread, is explain my experiences of Halloween… perhaps if you knew more about Ireland outside of what you can google on the internet, then maybe you could understand how Halloween is celebrated. Now, just like before, there are people who enjoy lore and there are those that don’t; people who practice traditions and those that don’t; if you think that it was different before, then you are very naive. Such matters are taught in schools and discussed in the media etc., so the origin of Halloween is common knowledge here. You must be very foolish if you think that the ‘knowledge’ you possess is unique or rare. As I said in the previous thread, if you could reply with some manners and instead of ranting, relayed some of the lore you keep talking about… now that would really scare me.

George: Why don’t you tell us what the Irish Halloween is… from your vast experience. Did I say Halloween is taught in colleges, or did I say folklore was? As regards the festival at Tlachtga (which you clearly knew nothing of) my point was very simple: an ancient festival revived by us the ‘modern Irish’, what does that say about our love for the past? I very much doubt that you have a cousin teaching in Meath (you often pepper your posts with information gathered after skyping this or that relative, or ‘on my last business trip to Ireland’ blah, blah, blah… it just sounds like you’re trying too hard to give your posts authenticity; what you really mean to say is ‘the last time I did a google search’). Even taking your imagined class at face value: doesn’t that show that such matters are taught in schools just like I said? I’m going to ignore all the references to immigrants (you really need to change the record).

kinvara wants Americans to buy into his Fool's Fantasy about Ireland. I on the other hand will not flinch from the reality. In this case the reality is that the version of Halloween now practiced in Ireland owes 100% to Hollywood and the USA, and 0% to Irish lore and traditions. His point that Halloween is taught in the colleges shows how much of a fool kinvara is. Shakepeare is taught in the colleges too--does that mean the Irish are experts on Shakepeare? What a dope you are, kinvara, you and your crazy references to Tlachtga. Take a stroll down O'Connell Street and ask people what they know about the Festival of Tlachtga. The Africans will laugh at you and the Poles will say "Me no Speak English". The Irish, if you can find any on O'Connell Street, will tell you to F* off! In three consecutive posts you didn't make one subtantive point. Sundry clowns like the guy in australia and kinvara want to sell us a sham bogus Halloween--won't work as long as I am here to unmask such Fraudsters and Fools. In fact on the weekend I was on skype with my Irish cousin, who is a high school teacher in Meath. She told me that NOT ONE of her class of 17 year olds knew that halloween sprang from the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain. So we can see that the ignorance shown by kinvara etc is quite widespread.

I was in town earlier and saw the Halloween display in the shop: barmbrack, apples and nuts etc; I know that there will be plenty of bonfires too. I wonder what knowledge the people who began the festival at Tlachtga had of barmbrack? Would they have considered it an unwelcome addition? I doubt it. Finally, you chastised seanomelbourne for being ‘unable to answer [your] arguments’, I think you are being kind to yourself by referring to what you wrote as ‘arguments’. I agree with his description of them as rants, but you’re a good laugh all the same.

I note that you didn’t make any reference regarding the ceremony on the hill of Tlachtga; what does it say about the ‘modern Irish’ that such ancient traditions are revived by us? What does it say about our love for such things, when we have University departments dedicated to folklore? I note that you ignored my comment regarding the media coverage here of the origins of Halloween and folklore. You also made very ignorant remarks regarding my comment on how traditions change. The tradition of going from door to door in disguise receiving food existed in Ireland. Along with this there was a tradition of playing tricks on neighbours during Halloween, particularly ones that were seen as mean or arrogant. It is easy to see how these practices evolved into the phrase “Trick or Treating”. So yes, George, going to houses in disguise, and playing tricks were very much part of how Halloween is and was traditionally celebrated in Ireland; does it matter that we now call this Trick or Treating? I don’t think so.

@GD: I don’t know where to begin. You praised the author of the article and then said that “the Irish are now totally ignorant of their folklore and traditions.” I think eiregirl summed it up pretty well when she said every Irish person she knew was aware of the matters covered in the article; it’s common knowledge here. She also spoke of the pooka (as have I) I don’t know if you have relayed any of the Irish lore that you so love to talk about; or do you just like to give it lip service and use it for negative purposes like your ‘use’ of the Irish language?

Not interested in commenting on the mundane and the ridiculous Georgy boy, your anti Irish rants are well known on this site.I was trick and treating in Dublin 60 years ago you ignorant moron.Hollywood borrowed trick/ treat from the Irish.

seanomelb-- You're unable to answer my arguments so you just shout abuse. What a fool you are.

Very interesting. I always liked the idea that the space between the world of the living and the world of the dead "was thin" on All Hallow's Eve. And evidently the Church did not fool anyone-the traditions survive.